Poor General becoming incompetent

Hello,

We had following case playing yesterday : a poor general rolls for initiative (for the first time)... and gets a double 1 ! He has to downgrade to incompetent general (and by the way leaves initiative to his opponent).

However, the rules state that if an incompetent general gets a double (except for double 6), he cannot be activated this turn.
So how does it work here ? Since he was still poor when he rolled, can the general roll again for intiative this turn ? Or since he is becoming incompetent, does he has to wait for the next turn. (We played the first option, and the case came twice in the game...).

Another question about incompetent generals (the case also occured yesterday). Let's now assume that the incompetent general was captured and his unit routed, but the rest of the corps is still fighting ! The corps rolls for initiative and gets a double.
Since the incompetent general is not here anymore, should we ignore the rule quoted in the first question ? Or can't it be activated for the turn, as if the incompetent general were still there ? (I would say the first option).

Thanks !

the general that rolled was not incompetent therefore incompetency rules don't apply to the roll.

I can't see how a general can effect for positive or ill if he's been captured.

I believe Zippee is incorrect on the first point. If a Poor general rolls double 1s the general goes down to incompetent and the command initiative is lost. Also remember, the double 6s only applies if the general was incompetent and goes up to poor. If a poor general goes down to incompetent and in a later turn rolls double 6s the command initiative is still lost.

On the second point, yes there are advantages to losing an incompetent general. The command will always activate. On the other hand, all remaining units in that command are out of command and get an automatic plus 1 on on discipline tests. So you win and lose when your incompetent general is lost.

When you roll the double one the general is Poor not incompetent GC - he becomes incompetent as a result of that, how does he then suffer the dice result of being an Incompetent that rolls a double one?

You're warping time to generate that effect

There's a sequence at play here.

This question has already been answered on the forums a couple of times in the past. The effect is immediate. The commander becomes incompetent and the command activation is lost. Hopefully some of the other active Forum participants will chime in so that you don't have to take my word for it!

I don't disbelieve you GC - I don't recall it though.

However I do think it's bleedin' barmy!

I have to agree with both of you - the logical result would be to apply the result at the time the roll was made, however Lorenzo has explained that the effect is immediate.

As for the second instance, once a double result has been applied there can be no subsequent effect.

Vol 4: Additional rules for generals (p45) states in Genius and Expert that the snake-eyes effect is immediate without re-roll.

The principle would appear to be clear if not directly applied to Poor to Incompetent.

By the way, that exact thing happened to me in a competition. I threw snake eyes on that command activation (my c-i-c) three more times in the game. The most horrible game I have ever experienced.

Double whammy when taking Poor generals...it's a slippery slope eh ? more like a precipice

Oh yar, Tarty.

It's another reason for me preferring a different commander cost structure. I will never take a Poor commander again. The consequences are too huge.

Unfortunately, I believe that most commanders were technically Poor to Fair (average).

It's actually a triple whammy not a double whammy (I feel a bit nervous about that statement) because having a low command value means you are more likely to lose initiatives and then have to roll again later in the turn, with the corresponding chance of rolling a double. Of course if you are only poor this is equally a chance to improve but once you are Incompetent this is not good

Cyrus The Adequate wrote:It's actually a triple whammy not a double whammy (I feel a bit nervous about that statement) because having a low command value means you are more likely to lose initiatives and then have to roll again later in the turn, with the corresponding chance of rolling a double. Of course if you are only poor this is equally a chance to improve but once you are Incompetent this is not good

So true.... dread each time you need to roll for initiative