Shooting at maximum range

Putting this on forum as follow upprevious topic re following rules maybe a little to blindly. You can fire at maximum range at angle but not straight ahead. This happens in games we've played where both armies deploy as close as allowed to centre line and knowing each armies moves you know the armies are at exactly 4H apart but if armed with javelins wouldnt be able to fire even if they were facing
a continous line of enemy.
I like the game mechanic in determing who can fire but maybe should be also allowed to fire straight ahead in the above example.

Not following you on this?

Gaius assume you have 4 units faving 4 units and you know because of deployment/movement they are exactly 4H apart but opposing units are not exacly lined up so an overlap on each flank. If one side is armed with javelins you would expect them to fire straight ahead. The rules say you measure from centre of firer to centre of target so according to the rules wouldn't be able to fire. This didn't seem sensible so we have a house rule you can measure when on range limit straight ahead if the front of the firing unit has target covering its entire front and the one most covered is the one thats the target. So in above example 3 out of 4 could fire. Only mentioned this just as your example about reation of units that occasionally following the rules can give perceived blemishes which you just accept or make a house rule for future use. In this instance we made a house rule but with reactions we tend to keep to this and only allow one reaction. Just our view others may differ.

We don't see this as a problem. Just move a bit closer to the enemy so that the centre points are within 4H.

The starting positions at 2H short of the centre line are supposed to mean that units are out of range, unengaged.

It's also to allow quick games for competition. If you must push things that close I'd suggest deploying 3H or 2.5H from the centre line.

I think Zippee that complaint is that two opposing units 4H apart that are not exactly opposite each other cannot fire on each other. The angle of measuring centre point to centre point means that the units are, by necessity, more than 4H apart. I don't see what the problem is.

Indeed, but in this case the perceived issue is caused by the deployment escalating the weirdness.

Impetus has a point to point range measure instead of a beaten zone in front of the unit. Its the way it is. It has pros and cons.

You can change that method but not just for deployment - I'm pretty sure the intent of that deployment gap is to make units out of range at 4H not put them just in.

Zippee wrote:I'm pretty sure the intent of that deployment gap is to make units out of range at 4H not put them just in.

I am not sure I am following this discussion. A typical table is 20H wide. Both sides set up 5H in. That leaves a gap of 10H. Where does the 4H deployment come from? In any event, I believe that it was designed that two opposing units at 4H not exactly opposite each other are out of short range and it is going to require an extra move to do get into it.

I am totally confused by this discussion.

Zippee we deploy as mentioned above as close as allowed to centre line ie. 5H so 10H apart. We're lucky if the game overruns we can leave up and finish another night. Your idea of deploying closer 2.5/3H from centre would help those who are pushed for time.

Kenntak will try to help.
When you have two parallel lines that have moved to exactly 4H apart but offset so when you measure centre to centre it would be just over 4H because of the offset so unable to shoot. Quite a while ago our group brought in a house rule that if firing at range limit and have all frontage of firing unit covered by enemy units ie. 2 units you could measure straight ahead of firing unit and the unit in front the centre of the firing unit would be the target. You can fire at maximum range sideways but felt it strange you couldn't do so straight ahead when enemy covered the entire frontage. For this reason in the example above only 3 out of 4 could fire because a unit on one end of the line its whole frontage would not be covered. At the time we discussed the point Zippee made that it could have been Lorenzo's intention to prohibit firing at range limits straight ahead. We don't know but felt it was probably more of a consequence of the firing procedure than an intention but for us it didn't really matter as we had decided to run with the house rule.
Point of bringing this up was really in response to your posting re defensive fire reaction. Although the rules are clear only one reaction allowed if you feel strongly enough that in certain circumstances more than one should be allowed its your game your table bring in a house rule. We decided to follow to keep to the one reaction in all circumstances. Not sure from Gaius reply to your question but his group may have made some changes to this.

Gaius when you say you don't see this a problem just move a bit further forward. As a 2nd move in the context of the game would have to consider implication of possible disorder & reduction by 2 or 3 VBU when throwing the javelins and possibly being caught disordered.

I agree about the double move. Just take another turn then. It doesn't take long to close the 10H gap as it stands. What you are doing is speeding the game up. If that is what you want just deploy a little closer as Zippee is suggesting. I don't agree with that because I think some armies require a bit more time set up their game plan. The game already moves pretty quick in my estimation.

Ejc, thank you for explaining that for me, I understand the issue now.

Gaius like you wouldn't want to deploy less than 5H to centre. game plan some times refuse centre or a flank. Games do run pretty quickly and when you get to grips gives quite a buzz. Think our house rule may marginally speedup or slow it but wasn't motivated by speed but by our sense of logic. I know we all have our own house rules we have very few.