To The Strongest vs Impetus

At Cold Wars this year I played my first game of To The Strongest (TtS). It was the Battle of Bagradas River between Early Carthaginians and Punic Romans. The strength of TtS is the grid system and the simple mechanics. A great convention game that players can easily pick up. Later I put on an Impetus game at Cold Wars and had a few of the same players from TtS. The difference between the two systems was remarkable. There is no doubt that Impetus is a more complicated game system and gives players far more flexibility and command choices than TtS. It took much longer to teach the Impetus system and for players to pick it up as we went along but by the end of the game people were starting to get it. I came away convinced that Impetus is the superior game system. I may occasionally bitch about specific rules but the overall system that Lorenzo has created is superior to anything I have come across. I think it is easy to forget this.

I tried TTS, even made up a grid board to use my impetus bases. It plays OK, keeping track of ammo is a pain. Every game has its pluses and minues. The Big minus for me with TTS is the cards all over the table. Really a deal breaker for me as I have worked hard to model status and casualty markers for my ancients games to hide all the usual tabletop debris

I agree with you GC. I've not played TtS but I have tried a number of other systems, some of which I played for many years. Then I found Impetus, which to my mind achieves a nice balance between ease of play and historic feel. At first I found the large bases seemed a bit clumsy, but then started to appreciate the ease and speed of moving that they allowed. The 'micro management' of other systems was not necessary, the games just flowed nicely. Great set of rules.

TD

I haven't played TtS...good to hear a veteran Impetus players opinion of them. They really haven't taken much traction over here for some reason? Seem to be popular in some circles though.

stecal wrote:  The Big minus for me with TTS is the cards all over the table.  Really a deal breaker for me as I have worked hard to model status and casualty markers for my ancients games to hide all the usual  tabletop debris

I'm "new" to IMPETUS, so "new" that I have yet to play a game since my copy of the rules and our groups push to try them was met with the "China Virus" and gaming as we know it was put on pause. I think though "Stecal" makes the point on esthetics is one of the BIG draws for us as far as a game goes. We are playing miniatures games which are a combination of the visual of miniatures and game play with the emphasis on the "Miniatures and Terrain" and having other stuff, cards, chits, markers, and such is something I try to avoid like the plague. Heck in my games you aren't even allowed to roll dice on the battlefield, only on your dice tray!

Sound to radical? Well I play for the visuals, the painting, the building, the people, otherwise I could save time and money by playing board or PC games!



A game with our group! I'm in the hat lower left.  

Hello all, I am new here. To the Strongest! has been my primary miniatures rules for the past few years. However, I have always been wanting to give Impetus a try.

I just bought the version 2 rules and Warbook 1, and have been playing around with some games. I really like what I see so far with Impetus.

TtS is a very fun game. However, the activation procedure can be a curse and a blessing, as bad luck drawing cards can result in an entire command being shut down that turn. In melee, every unit hits on the same 6 out of 10 unless it is disordered. Differentiation is achieved by the subsequent save rolls which vary by type and quality of the unit. The save is also made by drawing cards numbered between 1 and 10.

I agree that the cards are not very attractive on the table, and I used handfuls of D10's instead which looks better to me. Cards are actually faster to use than dice, but I prefer dice.

The grid system has its advantages and disadvantages. It makes measuring unnecessary, but requires a unit to face in 1 of 4 directions. The necessary gaps between units on the grid is a bit off putting to some (you have to space the units a little apart to see the grid). Complications arise when units have to enter a box with a unit facing at a right angle to it.

The army lists are very well done, but they add a lot of situational complexity with the use of such things as heroes, and special rules for certain units. Despite the game's surface simplicity, those complexities can make things a bit cumbersome.

The game is very dynamic because it deliberately includes a significant luck element. This can hurt the flow of the game and historical feel. Games can sometimes feel disjointed. I've noted that over the years it has added elements from other games, but that has made some parts of the game fiddly.

I have been playing wargames for many years, and have used many different miniatures rules. I will be playing Impetus a lot in the near future, so I am unable to make a full comparison at this point. However, from what I have seen so far, it appears to posses that rare balance of playability and historical believability.

Look forward to hearing what you think once you've had a few more games.

I don't play anything else but Impetus anymore these days, very much settled. Do respect people willing to get out of their 'comfy chair' though and try something new.

Let us know how it goes.

As I indicated above, the To the Strongest! Rules have been my primary miniatures rules for the past few years. For comparison, I used the Impetus 2 rules for the battle of Marathon 490 BCE, and for the battle of Carrhae 53 BCE. I have also used the To the Strongest! rules for the battle of Marathon.

I have to say that I enjoy using the Impetus 2 rules more. The command decisions and troop interactions feel right with Impetus 2. I also prefer the flexibility of Impetus 2, and although the rules are a little more complicated, the battles seem to run smoother. In addition, while the grid system in TtS! makes some aspects of movement easier, the battles look better and the troops move more realistically with Impetus 2.

My primary miniatures rules are now Impetus 2.

Your comments kenntak conform to my experience of TtS. I think Impetus looks better, has more interesting decisions to make and provides a more sophisticated game. TtS is a great competition game because it is fairly easy to pick up and grid system makes for easy mechanics (ie. no measuring.) I do also appreciate the lists are complete and accessible.

I played the original Impetus rules and enjoyed them but as gamers do have tried many different rules sets in the past 10 years.  For the most part I have been playing TTS for the past 4 years and while I quite enjoy them, I have found them to be a bit too simplistic resulting in each game feeling quite the same.  I also do not like the clutter of ammo tokens and cards although I do prefer using cards over d10s. That said, I've recently purchased Impetus 2 and all the workbooks and look forward to trying these out soon.  I do find it a bit difficult to find opponents here in the US, even with TTS, as most play either DBA or ADLG.    So, if anyone reading this is in central Florida do not hesitate to message me for a game.

I hope you find an opponent or two in central Florida, you might have to "convert"some people from other rules sets, lol. Ironically, I used to live in central Florida.

Noss Calavera wrote:I played the original Impetus rules and enjoyed them but as gamers do have tried many different rules sets in the past 10 years.  For the most part I have been playing TTS for the past 4 years and while I quite enjoy them, I have found them to be a bit too simplistic resulting in each game feeling quite the same.  I also do not like the clutter of ammo tokens and cards although I do prefer using cards over d10s.  That said, I've recently purchased Impetus 2 and all the workbooks and look forward to trying these out soon.  I do find it a bit difficult to find opponents here in the US, even with TTS, as most play either DBA or ADLG.    So, if anyone reading this is in central Florida do not hesitate to message me for a game.

Or, you could do as I do and play miniatures games remotely via Zoom.  With this technology, I have been gaming with players from all over the globe.