Are skirmishers too vulnerable to shooting now?

I am noticing in my games that Skirmishers are getting sniped at long range by those lucky Sixes, alot. A big change in I2 was that the minimum shooting dice was always 1 even if reduced to zero or less. There is no reason not to take those shots moving several times, disordered, at long range at evading skirmishers because that -6 still gives you a die roll. It is rarely worth the bother for skirmishers to evade anymore because the -1 to the shooter's dice is irrelevant.

VBU 2/3 units that take a single hit often just die and there are many weapons that now deny the +1 or +2 for shooting in cohesion tests that they always got in original Impetus.

I'd propose something like an additional +1/+2 in cohesion tests if evasion is successful.

Other option is that skirmishers need to get a whole lot cheaper. Right now a skirmisher at 10/11 points is half the cost of decent FP or cavalry.

Not really an issue for us if S VBU 2hit at long range only dies on 5 or6. Under impetus 1 fire if advancing unless armed with javelins hardly got to fire so main task stopping main units taking hits. Yes you can now be hit and long range but the

but can try to react.
We all have issues on parts of the rules which this clearly is with you. So why not just try some of your suggestions and see how they play out. Another idea you could just give the automatic +1 at short range so at long range most S units will be at 0.

We modified the rules so that units that have no dice can only cause disorder or disorder loses. To be able to cause a loss outright requires at least one die of firing. That means long range S shooting on S will only cause disorder and not death. A disordered S unit would take one loss. This does make Short Bow B a bit weaker in the game but we see this as a modest effect.

Assume your house rule applies to all targets? Also if for any reason a unit of T reduced to 0 it to can only cause disorder/disordering hit not just limited to S.

Yes, the 0 dice disorder applies to all firing. This was something that struck as odd. In Impetus 1 if you had no die there was no firing and we preferred that approach. The disorder effect is simply the compromise between Impetus 1 and 2.

I'm not sure about changing anything here ??

Things have changed a little for screening troops since version 1.

Skirmishers can be ignored without penalty if more than 4H away from a potentially more 'juicy' (mounted) target, shooting at S is quite often a wasted shot. S can be shot over by friendly troops without penalty at the same time which makes them very useful for the owner.

Guess I'm saying in the big picture, it's very much a seesaw for skirmishers ?? Maybe the balance is about right ?

With my rather limited play, I don't see any issues. I think skirmishers do what they are supposed to do, screen and annoy.

Units firing with no dice get an automatic die which means that they can, 16.7% of the time, cause an automatic loss on a high VBU unit. That seems kind of gamey to my group. In fact, over the years we have been playing Impetus we are finding the game becoming more and more a game of chance built on dicing rolling.

Agree with you Tarty but not so sure on the bit where you say skirmishers can be fired over without deduction assume you referring to 6.4 'indirect fire normally has a =2 penalty unless otherwise indicated in the army lists. Skirmishers have no penalty'. As the penalty applies to the shooter the way its worded seems to suggest skirmishers can do indirect fire without penalty? I prefer your interpretation though.

Yes referring to 6.4 Indirect Fire ejc.

We've always presumed the 'No penalty' applies to missiles being fired over your own screeners (skirmishers) .... conditions being met of course (they're closer to the shooters than the target)

You're right the wording is confusing, and maybe needs to be made clearer ? It's an important interpretation for screening troops.

It's ALL such a delicate balancing act.

As Gaius points out with the automatic 1 die for shooting, stecal makes a case in 10/11 points for an S unit. There needs to be pros and cons for skirmishers (getting back to the original topic ...)

Gaius, one mod that might work for you is to add a +1 to the cohesion test for a unit that takes a loss from a skirmisher shooting with no dice. This reduces the possibility of a permanent loss, but still allows the chance for that to happen.

It's the automatic loss with a 6 that causes the problem kenntak, not the CT number.

We have a shooting chart with about a dozen defined missile weapons modifiers for range and target types... and we ignore it and always get a minimum of one die.

Solution is simple for my small group that doesn't play tournaments - go back to the Impetus 1 rule.  No dice, no fire. I'll probably let reaction fire keep the one die minimum because it would be ridiculous to pass your reaction test to work out that you then have no firing dice.

I agree stecal. I think Impetus 1 was a better solution than the automatic one die. I also liked the Impetus 1 target priority system than Impetus 2. The target with the most frontage rather than the closest. Also, at long ranges priority was given to enemy units within the box.

I tend to agree that the Impetus 1 rule of no dice / no shot was a better rule. I feel that all sorts of troop balance has been distorted as a result. For example Cretan archers barely have any advantage now, they used to be worth taking as they would get one dice at long range vs CL, now all archers get a shot.

Not a show stopper, but a different game result.

Its good Stecal that you have decided on a solution on this point.
Will discuss this with our group. I personally feel if weapon in range should at least have chance of a lucky hit ie. hit an important person or just get a lucky cluster of arrows. I do agree with Gauis though that 16% seems to higher chance. Thus if our group want to change how we play this we should bring this percentage down when factors are 0 or negative rolling to die needing either 10+ or 11+ so now 9% or 5.5% approx.

If a 6 is rolled, you could also roll again to see if there is a hit. A 1-3 would bring the chance of a hit down from 16.7% to about 8%. A 1-2 would bring it down to about 5.5%.

it is a very simple edit in the rulebook for Impetus 2.1  to change 1 to 0 for minimum shooting dice.  

and while we are at it, limit the strategy/tactics card buys to to 1 for the CinC and and an additional one for each expert or charismatic general.

I agree that sometimes feels a bit odd an S having a free die and scoring a hit.

But with the 0 dice rule in impetus 1 there was the case for invulnerable S.

I do like Gaius suggestion to limit damage to disorder if with the automatic die.