Latest topics
Artillery and Skirmishers
4 posters
Page 1 of 1
Artillery and Skirmishers
We have appreciated the improvements in Artillery in Impetus 2. In Impetus 1 I never bothered with Artillery because I found it useless. The removal of modifiers for the Cohesion Test Artillery can have devastating effect. There is a couple weaknesses in the new system.
1. With the elimination of Opportunity it is much more difficult to protect Artillery. Sure there is TC-8 but we don't use the cards. Cards have a limited application in any event.
2. The ability in Impetus 2 of skirmishers to screen infantry at long ranges means that artillery cannot use its new strength against infantry. I played a game recently where an enemy command made up of large FP units screened by S were able to advance against enemy heavy artillery with impunity. Why? Because the Artillery was forced to fire on the S units rather than main body. Instead of firing with many dice against the main body the Artillery was firing 1 die against the S. That seems counter intuitive to me. I don't see how skirmishers in anyway protect against artillery shells. At the very least Artillery should be able to ignore S units and fire at the infantry with 1/2 dice (like the old system.)
1. With the elimination of Opportunity it is much more difficult to protect Artillery. Sure there is TC-8 but we don't use the cards. Cards have a limited application in any event.
2. The ability in Impetus 2 of skirmishers to screen infantry at long ranges means that artillery cannot use its new strength against infantry. I played a game recently where an enemy command made up of large FP units screened by S were able to advance against enemy heavy artillery with impunity. Why? Because the Artillery was forced to fire on the S units rather than main body. Instead of firing with many dice against the main body the Artillery was firing 1 die against the S. That seems counter intuitive to me. I don't see how skirmishers in anyway protect against artillery shells. At the very least Artillery should be able to ignore S units and fire at the infantry with 1/2 dice (like the old system.)
Gaius Cassius- VBU 7 h.c.
- Posts : 1243
Reputation : 43
Join date : 2014-05-20
Location : Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Re: Artillery and Skirmishers
1) Protecting artillery
Well, artillery can perform the defensive fire, that is something not present in the 1st edition. Of course artillery is a fragile target once reached so if you want it protected you have to protect it. For example by placing in a good place, by add fortifications or by placing a solid troop behind that should interpenetrate the artillery at the right moment. With a card it can be easier but not the only option.
2) Screening from artillery fire.
Screen doesn't mean to work as a physical shield.
You see the battlefield with the bird eye view, your artillery crew not. In a battle you hardly can see groups of men moving towards you. And once you see them you fire at them as you don't know if there are better targets behind. In later periods artillery was more used for indirect fire or anyway with a more parabolic shooting, but this is not the period of Impetus.
Mind that as you always shoot at least one die, it is easier now to kill S.
Well, artillery can perform the defensive fire, that is something not present in the 1st edition. Of course artillery is a fragile target once reached so if you want it protected you have to protect it. For example by placing in a good place, by add fortifications or by placing a solid troop behind that should interpenetrate the artillery at the right moment. With a card it can be easier but not the only option.
2) Screening from artillery fire.
Screen doesn't mean to work as a physical shield.
You see the battlefield with the bird eye view, your artillery crew not. In a battle you hardly can see groups of men moving towards you. And once you see them you fire at them as you don't know if there are better targets behind. In later periods artillery was more used for indirect fire or anyway with a more parabolic shooting, but this is not the period of Impetus.
Mind that as you always shoot at least one die, it is easier now to kill S.
dadiepiombo- Admin
- Posts : 1267
Reputation : 49
Join date : 2014-05-15
Re: Artillery and Skirmishers
1. Yes, fortifications would help and yes having unit behind the Artillery is also a benefit. But considering that infantry moves quicker in Impetus 2 than Impetus 1 a bit more challenging.
2. Yes, I agree that screening is more than a physical barrier. I accept that visibility is partially obscured by skirmishers in front of solid bodies of troops. However I don't agree with you that the skirmish screen completely obscures the formed bodies of troops behind them. That is why I suggest we revert back to the Impetus 1 and allow 1/2 dice for formed infantry units (it should be noted that S units provide no cover for mounted units.)
The ability to kill S at longer ranges is also true in reverse. S units can now kill at longer ranges too (including artillery.)
2. Yes, I agree that screening is more than a physical barrier. I accept that visibility is partially obscured by skirmishers in front of solid bodies of troops. However I don't agree with you that the skirmish screen completely obscures the formed bodies of troops behind them. That is why I suggest we revert back to the Impetus 1 and allow 1/2 dice for formed infantry units (it should be noted that S units provide no cover for mounted units.)
The ability to kill S at longer ranges is also true in reverse. S units can now kill at longer ranges too (including artillery.)
Gaius Cassius- VBU 7 h.c.
- Posts : 1243
Reputation : 43
Join date : 2014-05-20
Location : Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Re: Artillery and Skirmishers
2. At the very least Large units like pike blocks should be treated like mounted and never be screened by skirmishers except at short range.
stecal- VBU 3
- Posts : 233
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2015-02-06
Location : Philadelphia, PA USA
Re: Artillery and Skirmishers
Think that the unit of FP you refer to is more likely to be obscured by all the smoke 'the fog of war' also probably obscure skirmish screen as well. You mention that without the skirmish screen the artillery could be devastating but this begs the question should it be? or would it be more worry some than devastating? The last time I used smoke & ball artillery was when playing the Pavia scenario as per one of the supplements so will have to reserve judgement until played with impetus 2 but can see where you are coming from with cohesion test lack of adjustments and if firing at large unit could quite easily blow the rear rank away before they make contact. Maybe the ranged factors for artillery are a bit high!
As far as skirmish screen is concerned think both they and FP behind are at risk cannon balls wont stop at skirmish screen. if you feel strongly about this you could do as suggested by Gauis (1/2 dice on main target behind) or could roll a dice each time you fire to determine whether skirmisher or main unit is the target, or target the main unit and if more than 1 hit treat 1 against skirmish screen think this may only work if ranged factors reduced so only occasionally a 2nd hit otherwise 2 cohesion test a bit excessive only examples. My main concern would be the possible devastating effect when no skirmishers present. I personally would not do any of these I'm not keen on adding house only if you feel really strongly about something.
There's also the ancients artillery to consider when there is no smoke and the phalanx behind skirmishers are clearly visible and different method of firing?
Regards Eric
As far as skirmish screen is concerned think both they and FP behind are at risk cannon balls wont stop at skirmish screen. if you feel strongly about this you could do as suggested by Gauis (1/2 dice on main target behind) or could roll a dice each time you fire to determine whether skirmisher or main unit is the target, or target the main unit and if more than 1 hit treat 1 against skirmish screen think this may only work if ranged factors reduced so only occasionally a 2nd hit otherwise 2 cohesion test a bit excessive only examples. My main concern would be the possible devastating effect when no skirmishers present. I personally would not do any of these I'm not keen on adding house only if you feel really strongly about something.
There's also the ancients artillery to consider when there is no smoke and the phalanx behind skirmishers are clearly visible and different method of firing?
Regards Eric
ejc- VBU 4
- Posts : 354
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2016-01-03
Location : England
Re: Artillery and Skirmishers
The effect of artillery has been increased in Impetus 2 with units taking hits from it no longer enjoying a +1/+2 to their CT. So the potential for large losses is there. But not guaranteed. Nothing is guaranteed in Impetus.
Gaius Cassius- VBU 7 h.c.
- Posts : 1243
Reputation : 43
Join date : 2014-05-20
Location : Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Re: Artillery and Skirmishers
Yes the uncerainty is part of the attraction of the rules of the rules likewise a very forlorn hope can occasionally turn in a startling performance. Based on probability artillery can now be devastating which i would lquestion. Reards eric
ejc- VBU 4
- Posts : 354
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2016-01-03
Location : England
Similar topics
» Skirmishers
» Artillery - some questions
» Evading Skirmishers
» Impetus 2 - Artillery Movement
» Skirmishers with impetus bonus
» Artillery - some questions
» Evading Skirmishers
» Impetus 2 - Artillery Movement
» Skirmishers with impetus bonus
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Thu Oct 24, 2024 1:46 pm by kenntak
» How Baroque deals with enclosed fields/ linear obstacles terrain ?
Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:35 am by Ste J.
» Tournament rules and scenarios for Basic Impetus
Sat Oct 19, 2024 6:09 pm by Aurelius
» Routing at the Same Time
Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:21 am by kenntak
» Unrealistic missile results
Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:55 pm by kenntak
» BI2 Regeln auf deutsch
Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:14 pm by Leondegrande
» My 15mm armies so far
Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:01 pm by Leondegrande
» Basic Impetus 2 in 15mm
Sun Oct 13, 2024 9:52 am by Sun of York
» Spieler in D
Mon Oct 07, 2024 8:04 pm by Leondegrande