Skirmisher Dispersal

For our discussion 7.8.1 makes clear that the DT for 2nd move does not occur at the time the FL "melees" with the S. Otherwise, wouldn't it have been mentioned in the narrative? I put melee in quotations because the FL (or CM) overrunning the S is not a real melee for the reasons listed above. And notice that in Impetus 1 S units were also able to have a final attack against the dispersing unit before being removed. The only difference in Impetus 2 is the inclusion of a Defensive Fire step. I don't think DF changes the sequencing around movement and DTs.

Example 1 of 7.81 makes it very clear that the SK (velites in the example) can disorder the chargers (Celts in the example) before the chargers contact the charged unit (legion in the example).

That is what happened in the OP's example except it was CM and SK, I'm failing to see what the issue is and why there is so much concentration on the second move aspect.

The second move DT is irrelevant as the unit is already disordered at the time it would be asked to make the test so the test isn't taken - the result is predetermined and such a test can't lead to multiple disorder (7.7.1 makes it clear a loss from disorder comes only from taking a CT).

So the CM move, then second move (charge), they disperse the SK (taking a disorder from the DF) then they complete the move (charge) into contact and fight (disordered) the ensuing melee.

This seems pretty straightforward to me. What exactly is the problem?

I understand what Jorento is suggesting. It is plausible. I would be surprised is Lorenzo agreed with this interpretation, but hey Zippee, we've both been on the wrong side of several rules argument, much to our surprise!

Quite true. Especially when memory becomes "less cooperative" and when "the rule" is after all, from another version or from another ruleset...

Anyway, another doubt on the situation. When the S are charged and try to evade but fail, then they cannot do defensive fire. True?

Was skirmishers melee dice before dispersal that caused CM disorder.

Quite true. Especially when memory becomes "less cooperative" and when "the rule" is after all, from another version or from another ruleset...

Not sure I am following you on that one Jorento. I think what Zippee and I are suggesting is how Impetus 2 reads. I don't see any evidence in the rules for your point of view on this but I have been wrong before!

The choice for the S is either to evade or do Defensive Fire. 5.12 makes that clear.

Got it! I was thinking the evade for S in open was compulsory. I got "contaminated" by an adlg rule!
(that's the sort of thing I meant with my previous comment).

All clear now.Thanks

Interestingly enough one of the house rules we play is that S units must attempt to evade when charged.

ejc wrote:Was skirmishers melee dice before dispersal that caused CM disorder.

Apologies, yes it was but I don't think that substantially changes anything. Of course if they'd caused disorder in both DF and Melee then the CM would have taken a loss but not if only one or the other.