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» Warfare battle of Cunaxa
Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 EmptySat Mar 23, 2024 11:09 am by kenntak

» Ilipa 206BC Society of Ancients Battle Day
Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:16 pm by ejc

» Dice&Lead magazine
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» Errata updated
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» Mamluks in Ayyubids Egyptians
Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 09, 2024 11:43 am by Robert Gargan

» Army Scale in Creating Scenarios
Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 19, 2024 7:51 am by kenntak

» Army Builder Issue
Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 9:59 am by jorneto

» Scottish Wars of Independence
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» Hoplites equipped with Hoplon
Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 EmptyMon Jan 08, 2024 3:57 pm by kenntak

Warfare battle of Cunaxa

Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:26 pm by ejc

Sorry for short notice we are putting on the above scenario on Saturday 11th …

Comments: 4

Ilipa 206BC Society of Ancients Battle Day

Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:54 pm by ejc

This year's SOA Battle Day is Ilipa206BC will be about a dozen games all re …

Comments: 1

SELWG 2023 Thapsus 46BC

Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:29 pm by ejc

We will putting on the above game at SELG 2023 on Sunday 15th October. Forum …

Comments: 6

Colours 2023

Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:14 pm by ejc

Sorry for very short notice. We are putting on a game at colours on Saturday …

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Salute 2023

Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:49 pm by jorneto

Any Impetus games in this event?

Comments: 10

Society of Ancients Battle Day

Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:15 pm by ejc

Sorry for the short notice.
Our group is attending this event in Newbury on …

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Skirmisher Dispersal

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Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 Empty Re: Skirmisher Dispersal

Post by Gaius Cassius Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:11 pm

For our discussion 7.8.1 makes clear that the DT for 2nd move does not occur at the time the FL "melees" with the S. Otherwise, wouldn't it have been mentioned in the narrative? I put melee in quotations because the FL (or CM) overrunning the S is not a real melee for the reasons listed above. And notice that in Impetus 1 S units were also able to have a final attack against the dispersing unit before being removed. The only difference in Impetus 2 is the inclusion of a Defensive Fire step. I don't think DF changes the sequencing around movement and DTs.
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Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 Empty Re: Skirmisher Dispersal

Post by Zippee Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:40 am

Example 1 of 7.81 makes it very clear that the SK (velites in the example) can disorder the chargers (Celts in the example) before the chargers contact the charged unit (legion in the example).

That is what happened in the OP's example except it was CM and SK, I'm failing to see what the issue is and why there is so much concentration on the second move aspect.

The second move DT is irrelevant as the unit is already disordered at the time it would be asked to make the test so the test isn't taken - the result is predetermined and such a test can't lead to multiple disorder (7.7.1 makes it clear a loss from disorder comes only from taking a CT).

So the CM move, then second move (charge), they disperse the SK (taking a disorder from the DF) then they complete the move (charge) into contact and fight (disordered) the ensuing melee.

This seems pretty straightforward to me. What exactly is the problem?


Last edited by Zippee on Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 Empty Re: Skirmisher Dispersal

Post by Gaius Cassius Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:27 pm

I understand what Jorento is suggesting. It is plausible. I would be surprised is Lorenzo agreed with this interpretation, but hey Zippee, we've both been on the wrong side of several rules argument, much to our surprise! Smile
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Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 Empty Re: Skirmisher Dispersal

Post by jorneto Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:16 pm

Quite true. Especially when memory becomes "less cooperative" and when "the rule" is after all, from another version or from another ruleset...

Anyway, another doubt on the situation. When the S are charged and try to evade but fail, then they cannot do defensive fire. True?

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Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 Empty Re: Skirmisher Dispersal

Post by ejc Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:40 pm

Was skirmishers melee dice before dispersal that caused CM disorder.

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Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 Empty Re: Skirmisher Dispersal

Post by Gaius Cassius Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:04 pm

Quite true. Especially when memory becomes "less cooperative" and when "the rule" is after all, from another version or from another ruleset...

Not sure I am following you on that one Jorento. I think what Zippee and I are suggesting is how Impetus 2 reads. I don't see any evidence in the rules for your point of view on this but I have been wrong before!

The choice for the S is either to evade or do Defensive Fire. 5.12 makes that clear.
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Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 Empty Re: Skirmisher Dispersal

Post by jorneto Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:48 pm

Got it! I was thinking the evade for S in open was compulsory. I got "contaminated" by an adlg rule!
(that's the sort of thing I meant with my previous comment).

All clear now.Thanks

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Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 Empty Re: Skirmisher Dispersal

Post by Gaius Cassius Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:30 pm

Interestingly enough one of the house rules we play is that S units must attempt to evade when charged.
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Skirmisher Dispersal - Page 2 Empty Re: Skirmisher Dispersal

Post by Zippee Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:20 am

ejc wrote:Was skirmishers melee dice before dispersal that caused CM disorder.

Apologies, yes it was but I don't think that substantially changes anything. Of course if they'd caused disorder in both DF and Melee then the CM would have taken a loss but not if only one or the other.
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