Impetus Competition Derby Worlds 2017

Hi Paul H

Jez here - did we play each other last year? I seem to remember some nasty Thracians .....

Anyway I think that makes 10 players in total with the two Paul's - Paul Davidson (Eddie Longshanks) and you to go on the list.

Yeah double figures!

Cheers Jez

To kick things off...

Below is my Later Macedonian Army (c.198 BC).

average command + 2x2pt Gens,  52

command 1,
2 Macedonian Cavalry, CM, 5, 2, B, VD 6 pts 46
2 Cretans, S, 3, 0, B, Short bow B, VD 2 pts 28
2 Agema (2 deep) + Gen, FP, 5, 1, B, Pike, VD 12 pts 74
1 Illyrians, FL, 4, 1, B,  Javelin, VD 1 pts 19
VD 21

command 2
3 Phalanx (3 deep) + Gen, FP, 4, 1, B,  Pike, VD 19 pts 129
2 Illyrians, FL, 4, 1, B, Javelin, VD 2 Pts  38
1 Agrianian, S, 3, 0, B, Javelin, VD 1 Pts 14
VD 22

VDT 43

No Dice of Destiny (it’s in the lap of the gods)
No scouting points
Total Points 400

Slightly concerned about the lack of VDT, but here's my entry in case I change my mind:
Command 1 : Fair Commander 20pts*
1 x Seljuk Nobles* (6-2-B Comp Bow B) VD=3 Pts=36
2 x Ghulams. (6-2-B Comp bow C) VD=6 Pts=64
3 x Turcomans. (3-1-B Comp bow B) VD=6 Pts=75
Total = 195pts, 15VDT

Command 2: Fair Commander 20pts*
1 x Ghulams* (6-2-B- Comp bow c) VD=3 Pts=32
3 x Turcomans (4-1-B-Comp bow b). VD=6 Pts =81
2 x Daylami. (4-1-B-javelin). VD=4 Pts =38
2 x Archers. (2-0-C-short bow b). VD=2 Pts=14
2 x Javelins. (2-0-C-javelin). VD=2. Pts=14
Total = VDT 17 Pts 199
Scouting pts = 6
Command structure= poor
199+195+6=400

Here is my list for Derby:
Parthian Army of the Middle Period                                                Total
Average Command Structure – 12 pts                                               12
Two Fair Generals – 20 pts ea                                                          40

Command One
No.    Type               M  VBU   I    D  VD               Notes
1 CP Cataphracts        8   6     3   B   3*ea    General Att                26
3 CL – Horse archers  12    3    1   B   2*ea        CompBow B               69
1 Skirmisher              8    2     0   B   1        Short Bow B              12
4 FP -Hyrcanian  foot   5    5     2   B   2*ea                                       76
VD Total – 18

Command Two
No.      Type             M  VBU   I     D  VD             Notes
3 CP Cataphracts       8    6     3     B  2*ea/ 3   General Att                 78
3 CL – Horse archers 12    4     1     B  2*ea      Comp Bow B               75
VD Total – 13

Total                                                                                          388
DD 1                                                                                           5
Scouting                                                                                      +7
Total Army VDU – 31

Updated with all ten entries so far - still time if anyone else is interested

Can we get all the lists submitted by end of this week please - say Sunday 1st October

OK, here's my list. I've decided on;

Later Selucid 205-83 BC

Command Structure, Average, 12pts
2x Fair Generals, 40pts

Command 1
1x Skythian CL 4,1,B,2, 27pts
1x Argyraspides FP 6,1,A,3, 32pts, C-in-C
2x Argyraspides FP 5,1,A,3, 40pts
1x Thureophoroi FL 5,1,B,2, 23pts
2x Slings S,2,0,B,1,24pts
VDT 15, Break 7.5

Command 2
1x Cataphracts CP 6,3,B,3, 28pts
1x Elephants EL 6,5,C,2, 28pts
1x Phalangite FP 5,1,B,3, 21pts, Gen
1x Phalangite FP 5,1,B,2, 21pts
4x Phalangite FP 4,1,B,2, 52pts
1x Javelins FL 4,1,B,1, 19pts
1x Cretans S 3,0,B,1, 14pts
1x Asiatic Archers S 2,0,B,1, 12pts
VDT 21, Break 10.5

1x ROD, 2x Exploration
Army VDT 36, Break 18

That should add up to 400pts.

Tony D

Hi All

My army list is Late Samurai (Book 5) Total VDT 30

3 Commands - 3 x Fair Generals, Average Command, 3 x ROD, 10 x Scout points 97 points

Command 1 - 104 points VD 9

1 x CP* 7/4 B Class VD 3
1 x FP 6/3 B Class VD 3
1 x S 2/0 B Class VD 1 - Longbow B
1 x FL 5/2 B Class VD 2 Longspear

Command 2 - 143 points  VD 13

1 x CP* 7/4 B Class VD 3
1 x FP 6/3 B Class VD 3
1 x S 2/0 B Class VD 1 - Longbow B
1 x FL 5/2 B Class VD 2 Longspear
1 x T 4/0 B Class VD 2 Teppo B
1 X FL Ronin 5/2 B Class VD 2

Command 3 Warrior Monks 56 Points VD 8

1 x CM 5/3 B Class VD 3
1 x FL* 5/2 C Class VD 3
1 x FL 5/2 C Class VD 2

Cheers Jez

All of these lists look menacing in their own particular way

Hey Jez,
Yea, think we played last year. My Thracians did okay against Middle Ages lists, thanks to lucky rolls mostly

As before, my list comprises;

Command 1
1 x Peltasts w/ rhophaia, Fair CinC attached, FL 6/3, VD 3 @48pts
1 x Noble Cavalry, with attached peltasts, CM 6/3 VD3 @33pts
4 x Peltasts w/ javelins, FL 4/2 VD 1 each, @20pts each
1 x Light Cavalry, CL upgraded to 4/1 VD 2 @23pts
VD total 12, points = 184

Command 2
1 x Peltasts w/ rhophaia, Fair sub-general attached, FL 6/3, VD 3 @48pts
1 x Noble Cavalry, with attached peltasts, CM 6/3 VD3 @33pts
4 x Peltasts w/ javelins, FL 4/2 VD 1 each, @20pts each
1 x Light Cavalry, javelin CL 3/1 VD 1 @21pts
VD total 11, points =182
Average Command Strucrue = 12pts
3 Dice of Destiny =15pts
Scouting = 7pts

Cya soon,
Paul H

More Thracians - but totally different to Pauls crew

Average Command Structure
3 Rolls of Destiny
2 Exploration Points

Command 1 (Charismatic)
3 Noble Cavalry* (CM) upgraded to include peltasts, VD3 33 pts ea
1 Peltast (S) VBU2 VD1 12pts
1 Peltast (S) VBU3 VD1 14pts
VDT 11 Break 6

Command 2 (Fair)
1 x Peltasts* (FL) w Rhomphia upgraded to VBU 6 VD3 28pts
3 x Peltasts (FL) VD1 20pts ea
VDT 6 Break 4

Command 3 as Command 2 but with Poor General

Army VDT 23 Army Break 12 400pts

IMPORTANT

The organisers provide table covers but no terrain. I will be bringing "some" to use but if you absolutely have to have a particular terrain piece make sure you take some!

My Army

Late Feudal English

Average Command Structure
3x ROD
4x Exploration Points

Command 1 Charismatic General
King and Household* CP @45pts
2x Feudal Men at Arms CP @ 29pts ea

VDT=9 Break=5

Command 2 Average General
2x Foot Sergeants FP (deep) long spear @ 12+9pts
2x Mercenary Sergeants* FP (deep) long spear, front rank VBU=5 @22+13pts
4x Longbowmen VBU=4 @18pts ea

VDT=14 Break=7

Command 3 Average General
2x Feudal Men at Arms* CP @29pts ea

VDT=6 Break=3

Army VDT=29   Army Break=15

Just remembered ... you need to see my list!

As I said previously ... I have gone for the

Venetians. 1494 - 1529

Exp Imp 1 Page 25.

SC Average 12

C in C Expert 30
1 CP M/A 36
1 CL Stradiots 21
2 T Merc. Harquebus @ 21 42
1 T Venitian Vet Archers 18
1 FL Merc. Foot 16
1 S Harquebus 16
1 S Archers 12
1 Art Artillery A 20
VD 11 Break on 6

Sub Fair 20
1 CP M/A 36
1 CL Mtd Harquebus 22
1 T Merc. Harquebus @ 21 21
1 T Venitian Vet Archers 18
1 FL Merc. Foot 16
1 S Harquebus 16
1 S Archers 12
1 Art Artillery A 20
VD 9 Break on 5

3 Rolls or Destiny 15
5 Exploration Points 6

Army Moral, 20 break on 10

Total 400


I look forward to seeing you all again on Saturday.

CB

Hi Everyone,

Apologies for being so late with my list. Here we go:

Free Companies XIV Cent
Average Command 12
2 Rolls of Destiny 10
1 Exploration Point

Command 1
Fair General 20
1 French CP, Impetuous with general 29 / 3VD
1 English CP 28/ 3
3 Longbow A 69 / 6
1 Crossbow A upgraded D = A 26 / 2
1 FP Peasants 7 / 1
1 Skirmish Javelin 12 / 1
Total points 191, VD 16 break at 8

Command 2
2 CP German formed as large unit with general 37 / 4
3 Longbow A 69 / 6
1 Crossbow A upgraded D = A 26 / 2
1 Artillery A 20 / 1
1 Skirmish Javelin upgraded to 3 VBU 14 / 1
Total Points 186 VD 14 break at 7

Total Army 400 VD 30 break at 15

Now to finish basing!

Regards

John

John - Free Companies list is interesting. German, French and English co-operating together???

If we are still going for a "historical" match up in the first round wonder if it will be Colin Venetian v my Late Samurai. Different parts of the world but we both have harquebus.

Looking forward to Saturday. Cheers Jez

Thanks to all who took part - day went well I thought, but I would welcome any feedback both pro and con. Particularly would like to know what people thought about the venue and the 2 game format

and Paul Davison won !

Hi Ken

Happy to start with feedback and firstly thanks for being the organiser and for you and Paul to make the long trek down from the Northeast. This is fairly local for me and I thought it was a bit weird in the middle of nowhere but the parking and overall hall seemed fine.

OK had to queue a bit to get in and quite crowded competition gaming tables but these are small points.

The show seemed good and I liked the chance with a long lunch to look around properly and buy a few things. Pricewise I was OK paying £15 especially as we got the £5 discount voucher to spend on the day.

Games wise two worked well for me. I always get tired with three games in one day. I had a draw and loss (heavy loss really) but both games lasted a long time. Not sure how we would have fitted in another game if we had been doing three games on the day.

Perhaps if doing just two games whether a "theme" is better, but saying that Derby has up to now been the traditional open competition so anything goes ....

I would like to see a Basic Impetus competition in our yearly calendar but there is always the option to run something using gaming rooms in a local wargame shop or even a village hall (there was an good example of this earlier in the year).

Overall I enjoyed and will aim to try and make the trip to York next year.

Cheers Jez

Very much enjoyed my first games of Impetvs, despite the havoc john's longbows wreaked on my Cavalry.
I'd definitely be up for an informal Basic Impetvs event. Anywhere within a couple of hours of Chester is fine with me.

I've been thinking about the results and I suspect the 2 or 3 command thing certainly played against a couple of the less experienced tournament players. Splitting your army into two fairly equal halves just makes it easy for an opponent to pick one half off and break the whole army. I know a 50/50 split can work, particularly with heavy infantry armies or with huge warband armies but on the whole I think having 3 Commands allows you more flexibility assuming each has a function, ie there is enough of one troop type in each command to work effectively. On the other hand 3 Commands are certainly more fragile individually and you can end up spending significant a slice of points on Commanders. What do people think?

and a sort of addendum to that - I think Flank Marches are overpowered. I'm at a loss to think of a historical battle where they happen like they do in wargames. I suspect they're there because we expect them to be there because they always have been. Flank Marching really encourages 3 commands - both me and Paul D had armies set up to do it, but with hindsight I think it is a really just too open to abuse

Thoughts?

I've been thinking along the lines of 3 commands for my next 400pts army. It does seem to make sense as losing 1 command won't then push you off a cliff edge. I also like the idea of having a small, mobile command to hold back and then move 3rd. A drawback of that seems to be the limited units in which you can include a general. Un-included generals don't sound like a good plan, unless you also spend points on the command structure.
Plenty to think about before I finally decide what to paint for York. Options currently include Sung Chinese, Byzantine, Persian, Hoplite Greek, Ancient British etc,etc..

At our club we habitually use three commands for 400 points, it would be unusual if somebody only used two.

Jim

I have never used the flank march option to date. As I played Cyrus's Thracians in the competition, with hindsight I could of deployed much better to counter a FM. For example you could use terrain to block off one flank and then place enough units to defend against a FM but still have an advantage against those units on the table at the start.

I seem to remember I lost to Fraser using a FM with El Cid Spanish previously so obviously I am not learning from my defeats.

Cheers Jez