Group Counter-Charges

Gentlemen,

Re-reading and reviewing both the spiral-bound rules and Version 1.7 of the amendments (is that the latest?) in preparation for an ahistorical adventure wherein Greeks face off against Vikings.

On page 27 of the rules, in Section 5.9, the counter-charge is explained. There are several examples of unit versus unit on the following page. My question concerns a counter-charge by a group.

The group, let us say that it is composed of 5 large units of FP Hird, is NOT on opportunity and none of the units are disordered. With their discipline level of C, the group would beed to roll a 5 or better in order to counter-charge, correct?

If the group roll was a 3, then would each unit be marked with a disorder and separated because units that are disordered cannot be part of a group? Or, does each unit of the group need to make a separate counter-charge roll?

Thanks in advance for your time and counsel.

Chris

Weren't you the guy that got the last big discussion on group counter-charges going? I don't think we even agreed whether a group not on opportunity can counter-charge and Lorenzo didn't resolve the question to the best of my recollection.

We always play it that if a player wishes to activate a group he makes one die roll for the DT and not separate rolls for the each unit. So in the event that a group not on opportunity can counter-charge I think it would be one all for nothing die roll.

Gosh, I hope I wasn't the guy.  At least I don't think I was. In my defense, I looked in the rules forum for similar posts and could not find the thread.

Perhaps this is addressed in the latest version of the rules?

Very well, I will play it the way it has been handled by you and your Canadian experts.

Thanks for answering the question - even if it may have been a repeated one.

Cheers,
Chris

Just kidding Chris! But it was you that got the last conversation going on Group Counter Charges!

http://impetus.ativiforum.com/t774-group-counter-charge-oh-no-not-another-disorder

Ahrrgh not the 5.9 discussion again!

For the sake of an answer I'll assume a group can counter-charge regardless of its Opportunity status (a discussion that is largely unresolved - we can only hope that 2ed is [much] clearer on groups).

The group, let us say that it is composed of 5 large units of FP Hird, is NOT on opportunity and none of the units are disordered. With their discipline level of C, the group would beed to roll a 5 or better in order to counter-charge, correct?

Yes if you wish to try a counter-charge with that group of FP then you roll a single DT and for C class, within command range, that would need a 5 (or a 4 if there is a general in the group).

If the group roll was a 3, then would each unit be marked with a disorder and separated because units that are disordered cannot be part of a group? Or, does each unit of the group need to make a separate counter-charge roll?

Yes if you fail the "group DT" then all units are disordered and the group status would disappear and they cannot counter-charge.

Again the rules are silent on this mechanic but it has been defined by much discussion on this and the old forum - a group takes DTs as a single entity. I really do not understand (especially after the last discussion linked to above) why AI hasn't got a group clarification entry.

Oh and yes AI 1.7 (1st September 2015) is the most recent 'annual' update

That all looks correct to me

Not the old 'group counter-charge nut' again .....thanks Chris