Extra Impetus 5 available as PDF

Extra Impetus 5 is now available also as a PDF on Wargames Vault

http://www.wargamevault.com/product/181019/Extra-Impetus-5

Thanks for that, Lorenzo. 

My hard copy went missing in January so this is a handy thing.

Just a suggestion. How feasible would it be to create a PDF of all the amendments, errata and clarification that are sprinkled through the five books? Having a single addendum would make it a lot easier for newer players.

Ill 2nd that as I only have 1 of the extras as it covers my area of interest. Medievals for example, have no interest at this time and it would be handy to access any rule changes/interpretations .

cheers

Great! This helps a lot when creating army lists on the fly

If Lorenzo ever released a pdf of Impetus integrated with the 1.7 extra impetus amendments I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

Having to constantly search a rule between the rulebook & extra impetus is a real pain.

*cough* Impetus 2 *cough*

how many years do we wait for impetus 2? I'd buy a updated PDF now AND buy Impetus 2 when it come out in a few years. Limits of a one man operation it seems.

Agreed, it is hard to run a one man business in the hobby. Difficult to tackle.

I assume you aware of the Advanced Impetus PDF? It collects all current amendments, erratea, clarifications and advanced rules:

Advanced Impetus 2015

Impetus II is rather more than just Impetus + Advanced Impetus and errata.

It has significant differences and changes that all need testing - meanwhile the other systems need support.

Tankred wrote:Agreed, it is hard to run a one man business in the hobby. Difficult to tackle.

I assume you aware of the Advanced Impetus PDF? It collects all current amendments, erratea, clarifications and advanced rules:

Advanced Impetus 2015

Yes, I am well aware of that dogpile. I want to stop playing having to refer to multiple places to find a rule & having a rulebook with tiny scribbled changes all over the margins. Plus most tabletop games are going to tablet based rules on pdf.

[quote="stecal  Plus most tabletop games are going to tablet based rules on pdf.[/quote]

I'd need hard evidence of that.

the most common term of reference seems to be that tablet and/or PDF based rules (the terms are not synonymous) are very useful for reading or planning and plotting.

but to play the game at the table an actual book is just faster and more efficient.

I am only one, but I prefer using my Surface to look stuff up in competition play, Zippee. I have hardcopy as back-ups.

There are currently eight sources for rules and interpretations - the base rules, the five AI list volumes, the A and C document and this forum. 

All I am saying is that a bit of focus would help everybody, particularly for new players. 

The A and C document does have a lot of it, but certainly not all, particularly where it is expressed as a "tutorial". The biggest single example of that is the line relief tutorial which has the most comprehensive explanation of how it works.

The A and C could simply have those relevant pages from the lists tacked onto the end. That's all.

starkadder wrote:I am only one, but I prefer using my Surface to look stuff up in competition play, Zippee. I have hardcopy as back-ups.

There are currently eight sources for rules and interpretations - the base rules, the five AI list volumes, the A and C document and this forum. 

What 5 AI lists? there is one AI updated annually.

There are 5 Extra Impetus volumes, the (current) rules contents of which are in AI.

I have no idea what A and C means. . .

As far as I am concerned there are the rules (as in the original rulebook) modified and corrected by AI. The forum may (or may not) add wisdom and clarity to the above but does not constitute "the rules".

That said none of that invalidates my initial comment that it appears to me from general internet feed that the majority prefer a physical rule set at the table with digital rules for reference and army building.

I've tried playing with tablet rules (ie fully hyperlinked, not just a PDF) and it just isn't as efficient as a physical book. So I count myself among that "internet majority" - I really want digital copy as well but when push comes to shove, I'll play rules I have in a book, not so much if it's just a PDF.

Amendments and Clarifications (A and C).

I meant, of course, the five Extra Impetus volumes. Your reaction seems perverse.

And it is about more than "the rules". I am also referring to the tutorials and errata. On the subject of the forum, we had a situation last year where Lorenzo announced some changes here within a few weeks of our largest annual competition. Nowhere else. As the convenor, I had to make a judgement call as to whether we would use them. We didn't. 

Reading a hardcopy is fine. No one is stopping you from your preference. I just stated my current practice which uses both. Printers are easily available if there is an issue.

If we are stating preferences, I don't like PDFs. They belong to a tradition of the hard copy paradigm and don't satisfy either that form or digital. But this is the form we have so I adapt to it. 

I know someone who has purchased digital copies of the rules and EI volumes and has had them printed and bound in a single volume. And saved money, doing it.

Perverse?  Not at all, you referenced things that made no sense to me.

AI is the supplementary document that supports the rules as a living document.

The rest are informative and useful but AI supersedes them and usually incorporates them - there may be exceptions but it's not relevant as the Rules consist of the Book and the current AI.

Forum comment is not cannon that's pretty well understood.

So you do not have 8 sources of rules to reconcile you have 2, the rulebook supplemented and updated by AI.

Personally I'll use whatever I want and adjust as I like as I am unconcerned with tournaments or conventions but I recognise the need for a recognised cannon that provides a consistent level.

I'm happy with any personal preference, the statement I challenged was:

Plus most tabletop games are going to tablet based rules on pdf

I see no evidence of that being true - there was a growing trend of PDF publishing for small enterprises. This took a fairly severe nose dive after our tax laws changed hence the need to use middlemen organisations like Drive Thru. But in any event that trend was in support material, scenarios, campaigns, lists, etc - the successful small company rules are still produced in hardcopy because that's where the sales are. Those that are digital only have a much smaller footprint and player base.

I was as excited as anyone with my first proper digital rule purchase, thinking this was the way forward. And have used it. But I rather surprised myself when I found that in practice, at the table the hardcopy rulebook was actually the better tool.

I'm not anti-digital, nor one of the hide bound fuddy duddies that won't embrace technology, quite the opposite but I will use the best tool for the job and at the table that bizarrely is not a digital rulebook. But I absolutely want a digital copy in addition.

The one thing I truly don't comprehend are the people who purchase a PDF to print and bind - so often I read, "my rules have arrived, now to print them so I can read them". Utterly alien. Yes if you live beyond cost effective postal range and want a hardcopy as well it makes sense but people who habitually print documents to read, bizarre!

I find myself in agreement with Zippee here on the usefulness of tablets vs printed rules, and indeed on the utility they have. I have embraced pdf and other formats but find that on the table nothing is as quick as a playsheet and printed set of rules.

Of course this may change as technology improves

@stecal
I see your point, that would be comfortable to have a revised edition as PDF. Actually I do not play rules where such a service is existent. Most of the rules I play only have printed copies (SAGA, FOW, LotR).

Personally I prefer living rulebooks with updates, so I accept an errata PDF per year.

For me the full text search in the PDF helps a lot even on a mobile phone. I really appreciate that there is both PDF and print and I own all Impetus books printed and digital.

@starkadder I don´t see a perverse reaction neither. Let´s keep this discussion interesting and kind.

Trouble is that a revised PDF edition immediately puts two editions into service. Which do you use?

There are people who don't want and/or can't utilise a PDF anything. They will claim they are being marginalised and disenfranchised - that they will use technology and the internet to do so is just another bizarre facet of modern life!

For everyone that wants a constant update to reflect every revision there is another who will shun any ruleset that smacks of multiple editions - they will usually cite it as a money grabbing exercise worthy of GW and not a service.

This conflict cannot be resolved in full and the compromise of offering a free AI update document and keeping the rulebook valid seems a good one to me. No one is being forced to purchase or update but tournaments and conventions can point to a single consistent cannon that attempts to resolve perceived glitches.

So I think Lorenzo is walking a fine line quite carefully - the release of Impetus II will be accompanied by wailing and gnashing of teeth as the anti-edition lobby rouses itself to shake it's 1st ed finger at the fiscal greed displayed by Lorenzo's corporate attitude.

That being the case it's far better that Impetus II is significantly different, better and arrives at a significant temporal remove from Impetus. This seems to be what is happening, so for my money I think Lorenzo is playing the game correctly.

Doesn't mean I don't want Impetus II now! But I do understand why there is a need to do other things first.

Zipee, that was wisely spoken and the paragraph on money grabbing exercise made my day!

I usually remind people on what you get for 30€. E.g. two Pizzas and two beers. Or a pack of miniatures. For me an investment in a good game is worth 30 €.

For the time schedule, I think all experiences which are currently made with baroque will pay off for Impetus. So i will be patient. Lorenzo wrote, that the reaction system and how impetuous troops are moved will be changed, so I appreaciate that these are touched, since these rules could be more intuitive.

All amenments and clarifications have been collected in Advaced Impetus. It include not only only A and C, but also tournament rules.

There are not all tutorials but you can do infinite tutorials to explain a game (or its basing etc) and you cannot have a version that includes all this stuff (maybe in a few pages...).

What I tried to ask in another post was to help me to improve Advanced Impetus (the discussion then went to Impetus 2).
That it is not to fill with useless things but to fix those points that are not clear or complete.

Impetus 2 will be released but needs time (anyway I plan to release in less than 1 year).

One of the reason for releasing a complete version of Basic Impetus (with lists inside) is to provide newbies a complete set of rules. BI 2 will be released by June. And it will be also a very cheap pdf.

If you have followed the evolution of Impetus, then you should be able to manage the rules+advanced impetus. If not then better to wait the new Basic Impetus and start play that rules waiting for Impetus 2 to come.

As for the lists I2 will not superssed the Extras, but in the future all lists will be (revised and) collected into (possibly) 2 books, one for Ancients and one for Medieval/Early Renaissance.

Digital and printed for different jobs is how I see them.

I think Starkers idea is a good one can only be an improvement. The line relief example was me btw ...being someone who doesn't use Romans very much walked out the door with the rules and AI neither of which covered line relief. Must have been overlooked but wouldn't hurt to be included in the next version of AI.

Hard copy for me only on the table though that's for sure. Personal choice