Scythed Chariots

Scythed Chariots (CF) made a very rare appearance on our battlefield yesterday, as a result we came up with some questions as to how the rules work, particularly concerning the rule that CF are never disordered (top of page 11).

During their approach moves a base of CF had to change course, which resulted in their disorder (after a second move wheel). They failed to roll the 6 required to rally in subsequent turns, and so were forced to continue on their new course as single moves. (A clarification on the old forum from Lorenzo confirmed that for movement purposes disorder does apply, otherwise CF could move infinitely). At a range of about 14U they announced their charge (8U + charge bonus), but fell short, they would have needed a 6 so it was always unlikely). They were now about 2U from their CP target. So, question 1, are the CP in the TZ of the CF?

It was now the CP initiative, who decide to charge the CF. Question 2, can the CF attempt to countercharge?

In our game we decided that the answer for both Q's was yes. The CF failed their countercharge DT and so were rolling only 2 dice Vs the 9 dice from the CP. They rolled a double 6(!) causing mayhem amongst the CP, before their inevitable demise.

Views?

I can think of no reason why the answer is anything but "yes" to both.

CF never count as disordered although their movement is curtailed if they fail the roll. Therefore they should project a ZOC and AFAICR there is no restriction on their ability to react but like you they rarely make an appearance on our tables so I would need to double check each rule

Anything to make them even slightly effective gets my vote

Basically yes to both

Thanks Gents, we appear to have got the rules right.

I think Cyrus has sensed my concern, that under the current rules CF are almost totally ineffective. The way they work does not feel right. They are highly likely to become disordered during their approach, and thus be limited to single moves. They will then find it next to impossible to actually charge anything before being pre-empted by their target, particularly a mounted target.

One possible mitigation would be to give them their impetus bonus even if they are charged, if they have made a full move in their last activation, i.e. assume that they are always charging.

Historically they were difficult to use, but they were scary!

Not one off your questions but (as Zippee said);
The fail on the Disorder roll stips thrir movement for that activation. In the next activation they do not need to roll to remove the disorder as it isnt there so they can move normally again.
At least that is how I remember it working - I miss my Timurids!

Ah yes, I missed the inference that the disorder does not apply to the next activation. thanks Steve142.

More than that Aurelius. They are not disordered. They never suffer disorder. They never count penalties for disorder. Disorder is a state they are not subject to, etc.

Failing the DISC Test for multiple moves stops them moving again this turn but does not disorder them, ever, not even a little bit not even for thecrest of this turn.

In short CF cannot be in a state of disorder!

Somewhere I remember them always counting full Impetus, even if they weren't fresh. But I suspect it was wishful thinking on my part

We have two players in my area, me and one other, that use scythed chariots, and my undrestanding is that they don't suffer disorder and only halt movement on the current activation.