Samnite Army List

Dear all,

There has been some discussion about this list already, but I would be very interested in views, especially from dadiepiombo. Opinions have already been expressed that the beta Samnite list will not survive in its current state and I would be very interested to know what it might look like. Just as further thought, in the beta list you must have 12 Samnite foot, which made it very hard deploy all three allies. Will this change? I presume the Samnites will not survive as 5/1 with Javelin (5/2?) but the Italian Hill Tribes might gain a Javelin.

Interested in everyone's views.

'Italian' warfare seems to revolve around throwing things at each other, whether Javelins or Pilum.
It was the Greeks who introduced the phalanx which was taken up by Romans and Etruscans.

The problem is that giving troops a good VBU for combat AND giving them javelins can make them far too powerful.
I wonder if more pilum might be the answer?

Jim

Hi Jim,

That does sound sensible - a bonus similar to the pilum bonus (but I presume not as powerful as the pilum). There are some superb Samnite figures out there and I would like a good excuse to paint them. I wait with interest to see what else is suggested and what the final list will look like.

Don't Almugavars get a weapon that is 2 dice on attack or defence? That might be the answer

As per the Hamippoi of the Greek style armies. Same rule as Pilum but use 2 dice for attack and defence.

I think this is the way to go. Allow a mix between FL VBU 4 and javelin and more melee troop with VBU 5 but a weapon like pilum but with 2 in attack and 2 in defence.
I plan to add/change some betas in the next days, so I can update the Samnites as well.

Samnites should be tough enough to give Romans problems. But they didn't cause the problems by shooting them down but by hand to hand fighting, so the 5/2 Samnite infantryman with 'pilum' sounds about right.

Jim

but true pilum (3 +1) or 2+2?

If the legionaries at 6/1 with 3/1 they attack at 10 and defend at 7

If the Samnites are 5/2 with 2/2 they attack at 9 and defend at 7

So the legionaries have an edge, especially as they're FP rather than FL when it comes to missile fire.
But the Samnites have a reason to attack but once in combat without Pilum and Impetus, the legionaries have an edge again

Jim

So this would also make them cost more per unit ? (+3pts ? )
2+2 would be my vote

yes foot with pilum or similar has a +3pts cost

Yes, I'm make them 3 points more, seems fair
It'll make them useful troops in a Carthaginian army as well

Jim

Yes the +3 points needs to be added, but what do you call it if not pilum?

Dennis Maxentius wrote:Yes the +3 points needs to be added, but what do you call it if not pilum?

Heavy Javelin?

Various people did use 'pilum' like weapons, the Spanish and various Italians, so it might be that it could be used elsewhere.

But of course you cannot use it if you've got Javelins as a missile weapon

Jim

Heavy Javelin sounds good (with explanation in the notes). And yes it is an alternative to javelin that can be used by FL with VBU 4.

Jim Webster wrote:If the legionaries at 6/1 with 3/1 they attack at 10 and defend at 7

If the Samnites are 5/2  with 2/2 they attack at 9 and defend at 7

So the legionaries have an edge, especially as they're FP rather than FL when it comes to missile fire.
But the Samnites have a reason to attack but once in combat without Pilum and Impetus, the legionaries have an edge again

Jim

You sure about that Jim? I thought legions only had 1 pila in attack and 3 in defence, so they attack at 8 and defend at 9.

TD

Yes for the 'Italians' limiting javelin to vbu 4 and allowing heavy javelin for vbu 5 and 6 could be a good way of doing things

That should cover it nicely. Heavy Javelin would then cover various other armies over various periods and wouldn't need to separate explanations for ever different weapon.

I think the Beta list looks nice, it's an army that can give the Romans trouble is a straight fight, but to win probably has to do more than just go toe to toe.

Of course for Samnites you can probably read 'Oscans' and Pyrrhus, some Syracusian Tyrants and the Carthaginians ought to get an upgrade as well

Jim

Quite true. That's what always happens when you start upgrading an army, it then leads to more amendments/upgrades for other lists. Where do you stop?

Currently an eighty-something Phil Barker is upgrading the DBMM Army lists. You never stop because we keep finding out more and reinterpreting things

Jim

well Samnites are not stronger now than before. FL VBU 5 with javelin could be really devasting.
Anwyay betas are here to be improved.

I think we've taken away their machineguns and given them knuckle dusters instead

Now they've got to be prepared to get stuck in but if they do, they'll be tough

Jim

I don't think Phil Barker will ever stop changing things.

Hmmmm machine guns........ now that would be interesting.

Hi guys,

Many thanks for your thoughts on this topic. I note the new Army on the Beta list - looks good