Counter Charges

Hi

Some questions on Counter-Charges:

The rules say, “To counter charge a charging Unit, the latter must be at least partially within the projection of the front of the counter-charging Unit” (page 29, 5.7.4).
Question, can the unit charging enter the projection of the front of the Unit being charged at any time during its charge move (so that the counter-charge can be claimed), or must it be within the projection at the time the charge is declared? Hope that makes sense. If it is the former can someone point me in the direction of where it says so?

Following on from that, if a unit can counter charge (and passes the test) is it compulsory for the unit to be moved 1H forward?

If it isn’t compulsory for the counter-charging unit to be moved forward does it still get its impetus bonus in the resulting melee?

If a Unit successfully counter-charges, moves forward 1H (the above not withstanding) and is contacted by the charging unit only on its side base does it still get its impetus bonus (this is mentioned referring to Opportunity Charges page 44, 7.4.1 point 2, but I can’t see anything about it referring to counter charges)?

Sorry for the detailed questions I’m just trying to understand how things should work.

Many thanks, cheers Paul

Reading 5.7.4 it seems to me that the charging unit must be within projection of the front of the counter-charging Unit at the start of the charge. That is because the counter charge must be initiated at the time of the charge declaration, not during it.

I believe the counter charging unit must move 1H forward and if cannot do so the counter charge is not permitted.

As long as the counter-charging unit can move 1H I don't see why it doesn't get the impetus bonus.

I have a question on counter charges too.  Can a unit test to counter charge because it was in the path of the charge and move i H even if it will not contact because of overlapping fronts.

I.e.


1---
(2 H)
 ...2---
 (1 H)
 ..A---B---

A & B charge 2.  A overlaps 2.  1 is 2H behind 2 but in the path of A's 3H charge.  Can 1 test to countercharge 1H forwards even if not contacting? (might provide 2 with a flank neighbor +1)

I agree with Gaius.
Before moving Player one declares his charge (5.7)
Player two can only react with a counter-charge if the charging unit is at least partially within the projection of the front of the counter-charging unit. This is all done before anyone moves. The counter-charging unit then moves 1st 1H forward before the charger moves into contact.

The counter-charge diagram on page 30 states if you can't move the full 1H forward no counter-charge is permitted.

T13A I don't think your last question is a possible move out come after a counter-charging unit has moved forward 1H. Because in order to counter-charge the charging unit must be in front of the counter-charger and as a charge move must be straight and the last action before melee I'm not sure you would contact the counter-charging unit's side.

stecal
I think not 5.7.4 states the targeted unit may test to counter-charge. In your example 2 not 1 is the target unit.

But that's just my reading of the rules.

Hi Guys

Many thanks for all the replies. I think it should be as Gaius has suggested but I do think the rules were a bit vague on this one and bearing in mind some of the other answers to queries I was looking for a definitive answer.

Cheers Paul

I agree Paul that there are sections of Impetus 2 that are vague. This was the case with Impetus when it came out. What many of us on the Forum were initially hoping for in Impetus 2 was a rewrite of Impetus that would integrate all the changes in Advanced Impetus and tighten up the rules generally. What we got instead was essentially a reboot of the whole system. That has many good facets but the downside is that we are going to have to mash through the many vague sections in the rules again. Lorenzo's participation on the Forum for Impetus was critical for its success and will be critical for Impetus 2' success. I hope he is up to the task.

At this stage only Lorenzo can provide a definitive answer (which is why his involvement at this stage on the Forum is so critical.) Later on, as we build up a body of interpretation others will be able to provide definitive answers.

I agree with Roundie on Stecal's scenario. 1 cannot Counter Charge because it is neither the target of the charge nor part a Group that is the target of a charge.

To declare the countercharge the charging Unit must be within projection at the start of the move.

Also you can countercharge if you are the target of the charge, that is you can oly declare a countercharge to the charging Unit.