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» Warfare battle of Cunaxa
Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? EmptySat Mar 23, 2024 11:09 am by kenntak

» Ilipa 206BC Society of Ancients Battle Day
Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:16 pm by ejc

» Dice&Lead magazine
Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 8:36 am by dadiepiombo

» Errata updated
Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? EmptyMon Mar 18, 2024 8:39 am by dadiepiombo

» Mamluks in Ayyubids Egyptians
Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? EmptyFri Feb 09, 2024 11:43 am by Robert Gargan

» Army Scale in Creating Scenarios
Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? EmptyFri Jan 19, 2024 7:51 am by kenntak

» Army Builder Issue
Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 9:59 am by jorneto

» Scottish Wars of Independence
Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? EmptyMon Jan 08, 2024 6:41 pm by archibald the grim

» Hoplites equipped with Hoplon
Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? EmptyMon Jan 08, 2024 3:57 pm by kenntak

Warfare battle of Cunaxa

Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:26 pm by ejc

Sorry for short notice we are putting on the above scenario on Saturday 11th …

Comments: 4

Ilipa 206BC Society of Ancients Battle Day

Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:54 pm by ejc

This year's SOA Battle Day is Ilipa206BC will be about a dozen games all re …

Comments: 1

SELWG 2023 Thapsus 46BC

Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:29 pm by ejc

We will putting on the above game at SELG 2023 on Sunday 15th October. Forum …

Comments: 6

Colours 2023

Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:14 pm by ejc

Sorry for very short notice. We are putting on a game at colours on Saturday …

Comments: 0

Salute 2023

Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:49 pm by jorneto

Any Impetus games in this event?

Comments: 10

Society of Ancients Battle Day

Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:15 pm by ejc

Sorry for the short notice.
Our group is attending this event in Newbury on …

Comments: 3

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Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops?

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Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops? Empty Extra Combat Dice for better Quality Troops?

Post by Eques Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:26 pm

Was this really necessary or just pointless tinkering?  Quality I thought related to a unit's organisational skills, not its grit in combat.

This is why I am always trepidous when I hear that a ruleset is going to be revised.

Eques
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Post by Gaius Cassius Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:13 pm

Actually, I like the change a lot. One die extra doesn't sound like much but added with the flank supports it means that VBU4 T or FL units meleeing against C class troops can get 6 to 7 dice in a melee. That means they stand a much better chance of hitting and potentially winning combats against impetuous FL and CP. In the past they just got wiped out. Now they have a small but reasonable chance to win.

Impetus has been revised consistently over the past 5+ years that I have been playing it. Most of the changes introduced were ones that I didn't originally like but I have slowly come to appreciate most of them.
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Post by Tankred Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:29 am

The last 4 games I used that rule and I was quite satisfied. Fist, when playing with flank support, there is a need to give expensive troop an melee advantage too, since they get outnumbered by cheaper troops. I think the combination works and you need to consider both bonuses in one thought.
The games speed up a little bit with these extra dice and usually this works for both sides. So that is also appreciated.
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Post by Eques Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:09 am

Gaius Cassius wrote:Actually, I like the change a lot. One die extra doesn't sound like much but added with the flank supports it means that VBU4 T or FL units meleeing against C class troops can get 6 to 7 dice in a melee. That means they stand a much better chance of hitting and potentially winning combats against impetuous FL and CP. In the past they just got wiped out. Now they have a small but reasonable chance to win.

Impetus has been revised consistently over the past 5+ years that I have been playing it. Most of the changes introduced were ones that I didn't originally like but I have slowly come to appreciate most of them.

But I don't think Missile troops or skirmishers should be defeating melee troops. They didn't in real life. Under the previous rules they still had a chance to damage or disorder the opposing unit, but to actually defeat it is a stretch.

Eques
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Post by Eques Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:13 am

Tankred wrote:
The games speed up a little bit with these extra dice and usually this works for both sides. So that is also appreciated.

I've always thought this modern trend for "speeding up melees" is overrated, tbh.

I like a mechanism that reflects the push, shove, ebb and flow of ancient battles.

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Post by Gaius Cassius Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:05 pm

Eques wrote: But I don't think Missile troops or skirmishers should be defeating melee troops.  They didn't in real life.  Under the previous rules they still had a chance to damage or disorder the opposing unit, but to actually defeat it is a stretch.

Depends on what you are imagining occurring in melee. I don't always think that melee means units come into direct contact with the enemy. In the case of melee troops fighting missile troops a win for the latter might represent the ability of the missile troops to put up a large enough volume of fire to keep the melee troops from closing. That is how I imagine a unit of Peltasts defeating an warband in combat. When infantry melees against CL I am not imagining that the CL are ever necessarily contacted in real life. Should a CL take a hit in the game it could represent part of the unit deciding simply to ride away under pressure for good.
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