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» Punic war mini campaign
Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion EmptyThu Nov 21, 2024 2:03 pm by kenntak

» King David questions
Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion EmptyThu Nov 21, 2024 6:56 am by kreoseus

» First game of King David.
Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion EmptyWed Nov 20, 2024 9:06 pm by kreoseus

» ECW based for Baroqe
Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion EmptyWed Nov 20, 2024 12:01 am by ejc

» Tournament rules and scenarios for Basic Impetus
Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion EmptyMon Nov 18, 2024 3:07 pm by dadiepiombo

» Routing at the Same Time
Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion EmptyMon Nov 18, 2024 3:03 pm by dadiepiombo

» Warfare 2024 at Farnborough Nov 16th 17th
Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion EmptyFri Nov 15, 2024 8:12 pm by ejc

» My 15mm armies so far
Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion EmptyFri Nov 15, 2024 8:04 pm by Tartty

» House Rules - Impetus 2
Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion EmptyThu Nov 14, 2024 10:32 pm by ejc

Warfare 2024 at Farnborough Nov 16th 17th

Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:05 pm by ejc

Sorry for late notice anyone from forum welcome to join in on either day will …

Comments: 4

Salute 2024 Battle of Pharslus 48BC

Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:44 am by ejc

Forum members welcome to take part in battle of Pharslus Saturday 13th April …

Comments: 0

Ilipa 206BC Society of Ancients Battle Day

Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:54 pm by ejc

This year's SOA Battle Day is Ilipa206BC will be about a dozen games all re …

Comments: 10

Warfare battle of Cunaxa

Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:26 pm by ejc

Sorry for short notice we are putting on the above scenario on Saturday 11th …

Comments: 4

SELWG 2023 Thapsus 46BC

Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:29 pm by ejc

We will putting on the above game at SELG 2023 on Sunday 15th October. Forum …

Comments: 6

Colours 2023

Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:14 pm by ejc

Sorry for very short notice. We are putting on a game at colours on Saturday …

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Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion

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Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion Empty Experimental Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion

Post by stecal Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:50 am

Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion 1672-85
SC -Poor
Number Type Name M VBU I D VD Pts Notes
0-2 TR Noble Cavalry 2 6 3 B 3 51 Point Blank Pistol
4-16 CL Hussars 2F 4 1 B 2 34 Bow
or SI Hussars 2 5 1 B 2 41 Bow
0-2 DR Dragoons 2 5 1 B 2 57 Musket
0-4 T Haiduks 1 5 2 B 2 Musket (SM -1)
0-6 WB Peasants 1S 4 1 C 1 18 Massed Unit
0-2 ART Artillery 1 1 0 B 1 10 Art C
0-1 ART Artillery 1S 1 0 B 1 15 Art B
0-2 P&M Foreign Regts 1 6 2 B 3 62 Pike, Musket (SM-2)
0-2 S Skirmishers 2 3 0 B 1 43 Musket

Notes:
Upgrade 1/2 of Hussars to Pistol/carbine
Upgrade 1/2 of Hussars to motivated fighters for +6 pt each
add Agitators to Peasants +0
Upgrade 1/2 of SI Hussars to veterans VBU 6, I 2 for 51 pts



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Post by Tankred Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:49 am

Nice to see quite exotic lists to be developed.
I am not very deep into that history, but I am missing Cavalry with lances, which still were used.
Maybe some infantry should be a minimum choice, since the kuruc shooters were quite famous.
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Post by stecal Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:22 am

at this late date I am not sure they had true heavy lancers. (any more than Turks, who never get the lance despite using them)  The Hussar veterans and motivated fighters should create a similar melee heavy unit. It does seem that during the Rakoczi period the Hussar regts were 1/3 lancers, but whether that should be represented or not is the question. I've always assumed "lancers" in Impetus means cuirassier or gensdarmes with lance, not irregular cavalry.

During the Rakoczi rebellion 1704-11 the hayduks are described as having pikemen in their regts, often due to lack of equipment, so possibly an option for poor quality P&M instead of T for hayduks.

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Post by Tankred Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:26 am

to be honest my thoughts are inspired by images of the troops especially of the transylvanian armies. I currently read a little bit of the history of Gorge II Rákóczi and bought a book about the uniforms and flags in Hungary. The Husszars often seem to have both lance, shield and bow. But you are absolutely right if you doubt that everything was used. And moreover you are right, that there these troops may be represented correctly by CL with Impetus 1.

As for the Hayduks, I was more aiming to consider some Hayduks to be in the must haves, like 2-4 or 1-4 instead of changing the type.

The background is that with the list it is very likely that one only choses CL with bows and make the game a fire and run game.

Although this might be correct for the historical background I would leave only mounted armies to scenario gaming and consider to show, that the rural background of the Kuruc results also in infantry (T).

We don´t have something light CM in Baroque, have we?
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Post by stecal Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:16 pm

SI are effectively light CM.

In general I agree about list minimums to force the character of the army, but Impetus seems to not like them. If I had my way about 50% of the army list would be compulsory.

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Post by Tankred Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:35 am

Thanks for explaining me SI, I will have a look.

For the limits: Since this is your suggestion, I would recommend to suggest limits at your historical interpretation first. If Lorenzo disagrees, you will usually meet in the middle.
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Post by dadiepiombo Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:30 pm

not an expert in the period but looks a balanced and interesting list
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