Chargers and Melee’s

Hi

I and a group of friends play imp 2 in isolation from other groups.
We have a number of options on how the rules should be interpreted . Some things in these rules do seem daft, at first glance. All members of this group are very experienced wargamers and have played many different sets of rules


Can you answer this please.

A large pike block is fighting a group of peltasts. The peltasts have just managed to hang on after the first round of melee, against the pikes, Luckily to the defence, of the peltasts, a unit of heavy cavalry, charges the pike block in the rear.

1. As the pikes are not facing the pikes can they keep their charge bonus?

2. Clearly the pikes should be in trouble,so who is the main melee unit, the weak peltasts or the powerful cavalry?


I can understand that cavalry facing pikes would loose their charge bonus if the pikes were formed, but disordered pikes, pikes attacked in flank or rear would not be effective.7

Hi

1. No. The cavalry still loses its impact bonus.
See 7.2.3, noting the additional penalties against the pikes under 1), 2) and 3).

2. The main melee unit is still the peltasts.
See 7.7.5, second paragraph.

Thanks for this.
As I said theses rules are daft in places, but they are just rules which do not represent historical actions.

To work I guess they have to be balanced.
I do like playing them but they are full of silly’s like this.

Alexander would not be happy! Lol.

But he was Macedonian, not Roman haha!

The cavalry are still facing pikes that turn to face. In general cavalry should not get impact against any kind of steady foot. So this isn't that silly.

The combat is frontal, the front of the pikes is driving at the peltasts not the cavalry. Main units are determined by the front edge. This is sensible.

The pikes should be able to drive the peltasts back - that would be the expected outcome. The fact they stalled is unfortunate. The cavalry in the rear will impact them negatively in terms of dice rolls but more importantly means that a loss results in the pikes evaporating. That's the principle effect.

The pikes were in a good place, now they are not and are suddenly fragile. Impetus isn't a game about amassing more dice to roll hits, its a game about causing loss of cohesion and disruption. Its all about the CT roll at the end. For either the cavalry or the peltasts a failed CT probably means retreat. For the pikes it means disaster!

Thanks zippee, for your comments. I will try and answer you as follows.

The pikes have not turned to face that takes time, they are hit in the rear.

As the pikes are not facing the pikes then the cav should get their full charge value. It does not matter what weapon you have, being hit in the bum hursts! Lol.

The pikes are likely to have dropped their pike to use sword and shield, with the rear ranks trying to prob from the rear. Remember history says the pikes were always at risk from attacks to their flanks and rear.

I do think that the main unit should always be the unit that charged regardless of whether it is attacking the front, side, or rear. Any other units should be the support.

Remember the unit at the front might have been the main unit earlier in that move.

The pikes have not punched the peltasts back they might be the stronger unit, but once the charge hits their rear ranks, they are not.

I agree about your comment on the dice. It does not matter how many hits you give a unit, I defence ct roll of one is the real game melee breaker.

In my example,  if the pikes managed to give out one hit and the cav / peltasts say 5.  You have to hope that the pikes do not roll a one and you a six !

Thanks again zippee for your reply, I do think that the rule writers need to issue a few rule amendment / or revise and reissue the rules, as this is just one example of things that seem daft.

Regards
Hope




Ps

I think you are wrong and have pretty much misunderstood most of what I wrote.

Zippee sorry if y think I have mistaken your comments.

All,s I am trying to prove is that these rules need some revisions to make them more realistic.

Hope thinks that the cavalry's impact bonus should not be nullified if the cavalry is making a rear charge on a pike unit. However, I agree with Zippee that the disadvantages to the pike unit in this situation are sufficient for producing a sensible result.

Perhaps Lorenzo can comment on this topic from a design aspect.

As said Pikes have already many disvantages in this melee.
A pike block taken on the rear can have time to turn enough pikes towards the new menace. Enough to nullify the cavalry impetus but not enough to fight in an effective way. Simulation is more achieved with a proper final result than on summing details.