EI3 WotR Campaign Question

We started the Wars of the Roses campaign from EI3 last night. It promises to be an interesting campaign as the King's army got mired in mud and Lord Smith was open to assault at an early stage by the One True King (guess which side I am playing). The end of battle sequence brought up a couple of questions though.

The situation:
At the end of the battle, some of the winner's troops had routed (in this case greater than 30 points) and a little over half the loser's army had routed. At this point it is clear that the winner retains all on-table troops, but it is not clear from the wording of the campaign what happens to the remaining troops on both sides. The campaign rules refer to 'retreating or fleeing' but not to 'routed'

1. Does 'retreating or fleeing' equate to Routed in the Impetus rules?
2. If the troops that have routed are worth fewer than 30 points, are they permanently lost?
3. Do the loser's troops that are still on the table at the end of the game when the army breaks count as 'retreating or fleeing', or are they permanently lost?

No one have any thoughts on this? I'm tempted to say that all routed units are lost permanently but all troops on table are retained, as are troops that are forced or moved off-table without routing. Does that sound about right? Or should the entire defender's army be lost? This last might fit better with the tone of the campaign victory conditions.

What about those of you that played the campaign? How did you manage this side of things?

I dont have to book handy, but we played the campaign a while ago now, and im sure that units that have been reduced to 0 VBU are lost permanently, commands that have broken, and routed are not lost permanently, (i assume they are collected and reformed after the battle). Ill have a check of the book later once I have dug it out.

Thanks, Steve. Sounds about right, and I appreciate you taking time to check later.

Hi again,

Having checked it says that ANY troops that flee/routed and are over 30 points reform as a new army 2 areas away.

Commands that are less than 30 points are lost.

The way we played it (or interpreted it) was that the winner of the battle, got all his troops back, as he "gained" the field, less any units that were reduced to 0 VBU of course.

The defeated army (or what was left of it) reformed 2 areas away. creating a new army.

Having read through it this morning though, it does say ANY troops that have fled, so for example if my Yorkist army had 3 commands and one of the commands routed, but I still managed to win the battle, would my routed command just return to the army after the battle or move 2 areas away and form a new army?

Interesting question, hopefully Lorenzo can answer it!

Steve

Thanks for checking, Steve.

I would really like Lorenzo's view on this too.

Cheers,
Ruarigh

In the absence of guidance from Lorenzo, we've agreed to go with 'all units reduced to VBU 0 are permanently lost and all others are retained'. This means that routed commands will rally two areas away from the battlefield less the casualties that caused the rout. Hopefully this should work well enough for our purposes.

Now to write up the first battle and the opening campaign moves.

That sounds workable.

However, as in my example above, if your army had 3 commands and one of those commands routed, but you still won the battle, would that routed command (what was left of it) form a new army? Also would it then be classed the same as lord smiths command, ie treasonous?

It would certainly make things interesting.

Steve

Just my opinion: if the army won the battle, but a command routed, that new command would form a new force pool with a general of the same grade as the force commander. So, a poor commander whose command routs remains a poor commander but is now a general unless his command is moved to recombine with the original army. I think that one treasonous general is enough in the campaign, although it would certainly be interesting if all new commanders became treasonous. In the very few cases where troops retreat from the battle and form a new army, perhaps the players should have the choice of buying treasonous generals if they wish.

sorry noticed the post just now, going to read it and check what I have written in the book and let you know

ok, basically ther are 3 armies operating in the field.
Armies operates as points during the strategic phase and are converted into "real" armies before the battles.

Routed units are lost (but recruiment of new troops os alway possible).
Any army must have at least 30pts army points be considered an army.

Thank you, Lorenzo. That makes sense and is largely the conclusion I had come to. It was the use of the terms fleeing and retreating that confused me in the rules.