Scorpio rules

I'd pretty much agree with GC here - except I would prefer the 2 dice and disorder only option.

Remember 2 dice can be 2 dice three or four times if the ROman player is cunning

Jim

Yes but if all he can achieve is disorder and he cant stack them he can be as cunning as a fox who has graduated from the University of Cunning in Cunningham and it wont do him any more than disorder - the suggestion was Scorpio hits don't cause casualties even on disordered targets.

I don't think one dice cuts it - chance of a hit is only 1 in 6 (doh - stating the obvious)

Cyrus The Adequate wrote:Hmm - I don't think Wiki is a reliable source, and it "amuses" me (read I think you are being a bit of a ********* ****) to see you trying to put words into other posters mouths by stating that is Jims "prefered source" in a derogatory way but I assume Julius Ceasar is a bit more acceptable to you???

Because thats where the quote originates - and my rather tattered copy will confirm it, if I can be arsed to dig it out.

You are free to think what you will, I simply made clear that if you are going to use Wiki as a source at least make sure you quote the context and ensure not to cherry pick the part that you want.  Referring to it as Jim's preferred source removes the ability for the claim "I don't think Wiki is a reliable source" because it was used for the original quote.

As for JC, well I rather suspect he is prone to exaggeration as much as any other vainglorious general.

And for you, well you are a &*^@#%$$ **&^&%%#

Or something  

Cyrus The Adequate wrote:
Lorenzo wants to model the distribution of the Scorpio down to Cohort level. I dont think you can stop him, it being his prerogative.

Can I stop him?  Of course not.

Can I present a counter argument?  Of course.

Cyrus The Adequate wrote:
So going back to "selectively quoting" Wiki - err Ceasar - the point about range is that when firing at a massed target (which I'm comfortable describing as a unit in Impetus) the Scorpio is perfectly capable of hitting at 400 meters, which I think you will agree is more than the 104.8 meters that the current world record holder managed (I used Wiki for that bit but I think the margin of error is wide enough for it not to be a problem, nor any differences in a modern javelin to an ancient weapon - even if he took a really long run up). Under these circumstances shooting 30U would seen acceptable

30U for the Scorpio wasn't the issue, I stated that the javelin range was broken...

Cyrus The Adequate wrote:
Javelin range is only 15U btw - if you insist on quoting the rules please have the common sense to read them first. Skirmishers and light foot may throw them without penalty after 1 move, "infantry" may not.

Oh dear, this is going to be quite amusing given your, er, personality.

I refer you to the current version of Advanced Impetus, which may be found here http://www.dadiepiombo.it/images/stories/dp/advancedeng2015.pdf if you don't have it to hand and "haven't read them"

Please go to Advanced Impetus - XI

Look at the very first paragraph.

Perhaps I shall assist you and quote: "INFANTRY (my caps) with javelin suffer no penalty if they throw the javelin after moving for 1 movement phase..."

Ooops, would you like to revise your claims?

And your attitude?

Cyrus The Adequate wrote:
Play nice, cos we can all be arses if the mood takes us.

Indeed.  But if you're going to try it is probably best to fact check your own accusations, otherwise you just become an embarrassment to yourself.

Peace out.

GG

Balls - Pass me my Petard

Hold on - you claimed Infantry can throw a javelin 23U - 15+8, but that assumes infantry can move 8 - which of course they can't - only light infantry and skirmishers (infantry) move 8 so back to you I think?

Cyrus The Adequate wrote:Balls - Pass me my Petard

Hold on - you claimed Infantry can throw a javelin 23U - 15+8, but that assumes infantry can move 8 - which of course they can't - only light infantry and skirmishers (infantry) move 8 so back to you I think?

Yep, SOME infantry move 8, thus the max range of full power Javelins is 23.

Truly an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, I am surprised it is not covered in Leviticus!

Come on guys play nice no fighting in the sand pit.

Discussion is drifting a little btw

I think what GG is trying to say is that javelin gets two bites of the cherry. Without stating the obvious look at it as javelin gets to move and shoot 'without penalty'.... everything gets to move and shoot so increasing their range ? .......it's just some weapon types are better at than others is all.

The problem with GG's analysis is that FL with javelin don't always want to advance against the enemy so the 23U range is hypothetical. In any event, it actually demonstrates that the Scorpion deserves the 30U range.

As I see it Javelin range HAS to be 15U - it is a game mechanic, unless you want different range bands for different weapons. The logical range for Javelins is, I suspect we would all agree, 5U? However if we were to use that then the type of troops who fought by harassing opponents with javelins, wearing them down rather than fighting with them toe to toe would not work, as they would trigger a charge for throwing their javelins within ZOC, hence 15U - more than point blank, less than most bowfire. The alternative is to rework ZOC rules, which could lead to problems elsewhere, or yet another evade subrule - except that would break the caveat "you cant react to a reaction". I can live with 15U for Javelins under those circumstances.

Enough about that - can we get back to the Scorpio? Has anyone tested any of the options?

I have.
The separate element option.
It worked a treat. I actually survived.
And it didn't involve huge amounts of adjustment.

Cyrus The Adequate wrote:As I see it Javelin range HAS to be 15U - it is a game mechanic, unless you want different range bands for different weapons. The logical range for Javelins is, I suspect we would all agree, 5U?

I'd say 5U stationary, 15U (measured from starting position i.e. shoot first and then move 1 full forward mandatory) with a full runup. Momentum and all that.

Cyrus The Adequate wrote:
Enough about that - can we get back to the Scorpio? Has anyone tested any of the options?

Sounds fair.

Peace out

GG

starkadder wrote:I have.
The separate element option.
It worked a treat. I actually survived.
And it didn't involve huge amounts of adjustment.

I assume you mean treating them as a separate element of Arty B? If so I'm pretty sure that works too - that's never been in doubt. The question really should be, has anyone tried any of the proposals \ suggestions for devolving them down to the units?

Obviously this idea has caused considerable controversy. So to avoid
escalating matters I've decided to lock the thread, and I'll hand the matter over to playtesters. That way we can see what the actual results are.
I'll come back and report when I've had results in.