PLACING TERRAIN

Hello All,

I am new to this forum but I have a small group of Gamers and we have come to a bit of a roadblock regarding the initial placing of terrain.   We are split on whether Terrain Items can actually straddle the Deployment Area.   I would appreciate a ruling from someone qualified to answer with an Official Interpretation.

My interpretation is, that part of a Terrain Item can straddle part of the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of that piece is outside the Deployment Area.   Is this  the correct?

Further to that, I also believe that a Terrain Item can be Totally inside the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of ALL Terrain Items used are outside the Deployment Area.   Example, using 3 Items (for simplicity, they are all the same size), one can be totally inside the Deployment Area, one partially (less than half) inside and the last one totally outside the Deployment Areas.   That way the Majority of Items are outside the Deployment Area.   Is this correct?

This will end any arguments within the group and clarify the actual intent on terrain placement.   Your interpretation would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Dennis

Hi I think the advanced rules PDF on the website tab has a good summary which is helpful. We play if placing three terrain items just one can be in a deployment area.

Thanks but we have looked at the Advanced Rules and that's where we have problems. My question still stands, "Can I place part of a Terrain Item to straddle the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of that piece is outside the Deployment Area?"

Cheers,

Dennis

Hi Dennis

Only Lorenzo can give official rulings. However, the interpretation given by jeztodd is the one I believe is right. It is the only one I've seen used in tournaments.

Advanced Impetus doesn't use the word 'majority'. It says that 'most of them (i.e. the terrain items) must be outside the deployment areas'. Normally, to say that 'most' of a set of things has a characteristic means that more of the things have the characteristic than do not, rather than all the things have the characteristic but some have it more than others. Also, the rule doesn't mention areas at all, so to consider the rule to be talking about the majority of the total area of the terrain items seems to me an unlikely interpretation.

These restrictions on terrain placement are for tournaments. You and your group are free to do what you want in your own games. In the absence of an official ruling, the tournament referee would have to decide if the point was ever questioned.

Your 'majority' interpretation would be very hard to regulate. Deciding what is the majority of the areas of several irregular shapes would not be easy. Tournament restrictions are intended to simplify the rules for tournaments, not to complicate them. That is another reason I think your interpretation is unlikely.

So, to answer your question - I think you can place a terrain item to straddle the deployment area provided there are two terrain items wholly outside the deployment area, or you are the attacker placing a terrain item when the defender has only placed one terrain item.

RogerC

Dennis, I would say that the terrain pieces can straddle deployment areas, but if it does this then it would have to count as being in the deployment area and therefore other terrain pieces would have to be clearly outside.

Jez

Thanks Guys, but to answer Roger, we are running a 15mm Impetus Comp and so we need a ruling because one of our boys will be the Umpire.

To quote the rules "...he selects and places from 2 to 6 terrain elements, the majority of which must not be in Deployment Areas."

Also in Advance Impetus, most of them (individual elements) still fits my criteria.

If using 2 elements and counting each element as a whole, to take it literally, the majority of 2 is more than one, so therefore NO pieces are allowed in any Deployment Area.   I don't think this is the intent, otherwise there would be wording something like, NO part of ANY terrain element is allowed in a Deployment Area.

I am looking at each terrain element as a separate piece, so if you have 2 pieces, both pieces can be partially inside a Deployment Area as long as the majority of both of those pieces are outside the Deployment Area.

There are no diagrams to illustrate this so I refer to the diagram in Advance Impetus under Ambush which shows 3 elements of terrain.   One element is TOTALLY outside the Deployment Area but the other 2 are PARTIALLY in (straddling) the Deployment Area, so that the majority of ALL terrain elements is outside the Deployment Area.   Does that make sense?

You can see at a glance if the majority of a single element is inside or outside an area.   And providing the majority of each individual element is outside the Deployment Area, this meets the requirement.

So how do I get a ruling if Lorenzo is the only one that can do this?

Thanks again for your input.

Regards,

Dennis

"So how do I get a ruling if Lorenzo is the only one that can do this?"

Ask him.

Jim Webster handles a lot of this kind of thing.

PM Dadiepiombo if you're desperate.
He is also on Facebook

For what it's worth, applying a surface area argument (your "majority") would only be relevant to particular types of terrain (hills, rough ground etc). It would only lead to enormous arguments and spark interest in trigonometry.

Thanks, but I'm not on Facebook. I thought Dadiepiombo was on this site.

I still think I can have parts of a terrain element in a Deployment Area providing the majority of that piece is outside it.

Regards,

Dennis

Dennis Maximus wrote:I still think I can have parts of a terrain element in a Deployment Area providing the majority of that piece is outside it.

Yep.

dadiepiombo is indeed on this site.
On Facebook he's Lorenzo Sartori.

Thanks, are you saying Yes that you agree with my interpretation, or Yes that Lorenzo is on this site?

Dennis

Dennis Maximus wrote:Thanks, are you saying Yes that you agree with my interpretation, or Yes that Lorenzo is on this site?

Yep.

I don't agree with your "total surface area of all pieces" concept but, for example, a hill poking a bit into a deployment area is fine.

And Lorenzo is here. He is all around us, watching over us. Relentlessly.   

I still feel my interpretation is correct and I welcome a ruling from Lorenzo.

A diagram showing terrain placement would be helpful, as that will define the correct intent.   The only diagram that comes close to illustrating my point is in the Advanced Impetus under Ambush.   It just shows an example of what I'm trying to describe as far as terrain placement.

Regards,

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I'm currently sitting waiting for my transfer to Heathrow so I thought I'd take the time to look up the references to hopefully answer your questions.

My quotes come from the advanced Impetus rules which are available as a free download by following this link:

Advanced Impetus download link

The section "Making the Terrain" starts at the very bottom of page I and continues over to page II.

Dennis Maximus wrote:Hello All,

I am new to this forum but I have a small group of Gamers and we have come to a bit of a roadblock regarding the initial placing of terrain.   We are split on whether Terrain Items can actually straddle the Deployment Area.   I would appreciate a ruling from someone qualified to answer with an Official Interpretation.

My interpretation is, that part of a Terrain Item can straddle part of the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of that piece is outside the Deployment Area.   Is this  the correct?

Individual terrain items can generally be placed anywhere provided the overriding rules are respected. The relevant one for the situation you mention is that of the total terrain pieces placed most of them must be "entirely outside the deployment areas".

So if you have 1 terrain piece it must not be in a deployment zone, 2 pieces both must also be outside of deployment zones, 3 pieces allows 1 inside deployment zone etc.

Dennis Maximus wrote:
Further to that, I also believe that a Terrain Item can be Totally inside the Deployment Area as long as the Majority of ALL Terrain Items used are outside the Deployment Area.   Example, using 3 Items (for simplicity, they are all the same size), one can be totally inside the Deployment Area, one partially (less than half) inside and the last one totally outside the Deployment Areas.   That way the Majority of Items are outside the Deployment Area.   Is this correct?

The literal wording of the rule is that most of the terrain pieces must be ENTIRELY outside of the deployment zone so you cannot have an item partially within a deployment zone counting toward the majority of terrain pieces being entirely outside the deployment zone.

So for three pieces you must have 2 entirely free of deployment zones, the third can be fully or partially within a deployment zone.

Dennis Maximus wrote:
This will end any arguments within the group and clarify the actual intent on terrain placement.   Your interpretation would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Dennis

Hope that helps, best of luck and good gaming!

GG

Thanks Mate, appreciate your reply, but I still believe that it depends how you actually read the text as to which interpretation is correct. Believe it or not, I can actually see what you and everyone else is saying, it's just that I have a different interpretation.

Simple wording like, "No individual terrain piece can be placed in a Deployment Area." would have been great. Or even a diagram.

I would gladly welcome an Official Ruling.

Regards,

Dennis

I'm here. Missed the post.
As already said. The majority means most of the terrains.
So with 3 pieces one can straddle, with 2 no one.

Thank you Lorenzo. I'm glad we've been playing this correctly.

RogerC

Molte Grazie Lorenzo,

That will end any arguments. Apprezzato. I appreciate your ruling. I like the rules very much and enjoy the game. I look forward to the Revised Rules. Keep up the good work.

Saluti,

Dennis