Death of a general + Flank charge on a group

Hello,

We had two questions during our last game, and would like to know how you would play it.

1°) Death of a general : A brave but foolish general has the bad idea to die during melee, leading his Command to take 1/3 of losses of VDC. We play with the alternative system (p. 49), meaning the Command doesn't rout yet, but gets disadvantages, among others that units "can be activated only of within the Command structure radius".
But since the general is dead, how should the Command structure be measured ? Does the Command has no command structure any more, meaning its units cannot be activated (which seems harsh!) ? Or do we measure from the C-in-C ? Or other possibilities ?

2°) Flank charge on a group : a FL unit manages to flank charge (not side charge) a Group of  3 CP units, already engaged on face. Situation is as follow :


The FL wins the melee, meaning the flank charged CP cannot retreat. However, nothing is stated in 7.2.3 about Groups (only single or Large units). So does the entire CP Group rout (seems very harsh, once again!) ? Or should we rather differentiate as follow : CP A is flank charged and cannot retreat (i.e. is routed), CP B was involved as support unit and therefore retreats, CP C wasn't involved in melee and stays where it is ?

Thanks in advance !

1. Yes, loss of general can be harsh. In the case you describe all the units are 'out of command' and so can only stand and fight as they are.

2. The Main unit is the only one to take the cohesion test and losses (7.7.5). The support unit will retreat with disorder (a VBU loss if already disordered). The third CP C was not part of the combat and so is not affected.

Cheers,

TD

Just remember that it is more than 1/3 VD loss so that means in a command with 12 VD the demoralization value is 5 VD. So if you had a command of 3 CP plus a reliable commander the total VD value is 10. That means you will need to lose 2 units to demoralize (and the command will rout anyway since the loss is greater than 50%!) In Impetus 2 the construction of commands is very important.

As an aside, after having each played 50+ games of Impetus 2 we decided to modify the command rout rules. The situation you described seemed a bit odd to us (especially having played Impetus for many years) so we allow demoralized Commands where the general has died to activate on a Discipline Test. That means the chances of activating are small but there is still a chance to do so.

Ok, so we played correctly.
Thanks !

Do I understand correctly that if a general is killed then the whole Command, being out of command, cannot be activated at all: as if he's a Poor or Incompetent commander who's rolled a double 1 in the initiative phase?

This effectively wipes out the entire command.

No. The command cannot be activated only if it suffered between 1/3 and 50% losses AND the general was killed (check page 49 on the rules).

In our group we use a straight 50% breakpoint (that is, it can activate and react normally up to that point).

In practice it adds an average of 2 game turns and takes a bit longer than the 33% criteria but possibly faster than the rules alternative system at 50%.

Excuse if I'm missing something here, but if the command HAS NOT taken 1/3 losses yet the general has died can that command be activated?

If the command can be activated (because it has not lost 1/3, despite having lost the general) then presumably in the activation phase the Leadership Bonus is 0. Individual Units/Groups can operate as normal, but always 'Out of Command' with, effectively, a permanent -1 in any Discipline Test.

If I understand you correctly when the command HAS taken more than 1/3 losses and the general has also died then Page 49 (under 'The alternative system a): "Can be activated only if within the Command Structure radius."') means that any unit in that command can only stand and fight as they are: the general being dead ipso facto all units are out of the Command Structure.

That’s it. Yes to all.