Early Franks

Looking at building an Early Frank army and am thinking that the Alammani list in EI2 could work nicely. I was wondering if it might make sense to give the Frankish warbands the pilum bonus (+2/+2) to represent the francisca and other heavy throwing weapons. Not sure it is worth the points but it might give the army a little extra flavour. Opinions appreciated.

BI-II introduced the concept of Point Blank Weapons of which pilum is one.

So I don't think you're very wide of the mark, the only real problem is n identifying who and what deserves to get a PBW category. . .

This has been brought up before re the francisca ? can't quiet remember. Do you think it deserves the same recognition as the pilum is the question...maybe not. Perhaps incorporate it into the Impetus factor instead ? (+1 for some for example) Don't get me wrong I'm all for more flavour.

I'd say go for it. The German/Gaul/Dacian lists are all so very generic & interchangeable that PBW gives this list a nice bit of difference.

The PBW is a nice innovation

Tarty wrote:This has been brought up before re the francisca ? can't quiet remember. Do you think it deserves the same recognition as the pilum is the question...maybe not. Perhaps incorporate it into the Impetus factor instead ? (+1 for some for example) Don't get me wrong I'm all for more flavour.

In BI-II, PBW is less powerful than pilum

Pilum is 2d6 if charging, 4d6 if charged (minus disorder), CT takes place prior to melee.

PBW (of which the francisca is the only listed example) only roll 3d6 whether charged or charging.

I think as long as most of the migration period warband foot armies get it (as an option at least) then there's no real problem with it in this context.

The problems start if you recall when we consider classical Iberian and other less obvious candidates such as Mesoamericans and Mesopotamian throwing sticks, etc.

Good to see we're already talking about incorporating BI2 into the 'real game'

Tarty wrote:Good to see we're already talking about incorporating BI2 into the 'real game'

I think it's more a case that BI-II offers us some tempting insights (as does Baroque) into what Impetus II might look like.

Zippee wrote:

Tarty wrote:Good to see we're already talking about incorporating BI2 into the 'real game'

I think it's more a case that BI-II offers us some tempting insights (as does Baroque) into what Impetus II might look like.

Yep... I agree

Tarty wrote:

Zippee wrote:

Tarty wrote:Good to see we're already talking about incorporating BI2 into the 'real game'

I think it's more a case that BI-II offers us some tempting insights (as does Baroque) into what Impetus II might look like.

Yep... I agree

Perhaps! I am still a fan of Opportunity and ZOC over the Reaction Test in Baroque so we will see.

Zippee wrote: In BI-II, PBW is less powerful than pilum

Pilum is 2d6 if charging, 4d6 if charged (minus disorder), CT takes place prior to melee.

PBW (of which the francisca is the only listed example) only roll 3d6 whether charged or charging.

I think as long as most of the migration period warband foot armies get it (as an option at least) then there's no real problem with it in this context.

BI2 significantly improves the Pilum and HTW/PBW bonus (something that you have been advocating for a long time Zippee!) That should make the weapon more effective and reliable.

As far as which warband armies getting the bonus using the WRG 7th lists as a source it would be the Franks, Alammani, Burgundian and not the Saxon, Frisian, Suevi or Thuringian (or Goths for that matter.) So I'd suggest your "most" be modified to "some".

Gaius Cassius wrote:
Perhaps! I am still a fan of Opportunity and ZOC over the Reaction Test in Baroque so we will see.  

I suspect that puts you in a minority

Gaius Cassius wrote:

Zippee wrote: In BI-II, PBW is less powerful than pilum

Pilum is 2d6 if charging, 4d6 if charged (minus disorder), CT takes place prior to melee.

PBW (of which the francisca is the only listed example) only roll 3d6 whether charged or charging.

I think as long as most of the migration period warband foot armies get it (as an option at least) then there's no real problem with it in this context.

BI2 significantly improves the Pilum and HTW/PBW bonus (something that you have been advocating for a long time Zippee!) That should make the weapon more effective and reliable.

As far as which warband armies getting the bonus using the WRG 7th lists as a source it would be the Franks, Alammani, Burgundian and not the Saxon, Frisian, Suevi or Thuringian (or Goths for that matter.) So I'd suggest your "most" be modified to "some".

I said "as an option" that includes allies and allied contingents - most armies were amalgamatians