Horse vs P&M with P&M Taken in Flank/Rear

When a horse unit charges and enters into melee against a pike & musket unit and that P&M unit is contacted in the flank or rear, does the horse unit lose its Impetvs Bonus for "Mounted Charging Pike-Armed Foot?"

Yes IMO
P&M units are abstractions of a complex grouping of sub-units. The exact positioning of musket/arquebus sleeve(s) in relation to the pike block(s) at any given moment is unknown - it was common for the whole lot to form some kind of huddle under the protection of the pikes.

I think you're still facing pikes but you do get other advantages for the morale superiority of attacking the flank/rear

Zippee wrote:Yes IMO
P&M units are abstractions of a complex grouping of sub-units. The exact positioning of musket/arquebus sleeve(s) in relation to the pike block(s) at any given moment is unknown - it was common for the whole lot to form some kind of huddle under the protection of the pikes.

I think you're still facing pikes but you do get other advantages for the morale superiority of attacking the flank/rear

Just to say that this is the best way of looking at it. We might put the figures in three blocks, the middle one having pikes, but in reality there could be any number of clumps of pikes with musketeers between them.
And the musketeers might have been prone to hiding behind the pikes, or shooting from behind them, when anybody hostile came close

Appreciate the responses guys.  I do agree with the argument for abstraction in game terms and buy into the notion that local commanders ought to have the experience and flexibility to put their unit into the proper tactical formation given the situation.  These lower level tactical decisions are not something to which higher commanders intervene unless attached.


Let's play devils' advocate for a moment.  If the defending P&M can abstractly form up (to either flank or rear) to present a pike wall which negates the attacking horse's Impetvs Bonus, what is the rationale for the penalties for automatic defender disorder (-1) and fighting while attacked in flank/rear (-1).  When the P&M forms to present pikes to flank/rear where is the exposed flank/rear for which they are penalized? What is the cause of disorder if that flank/rear has successfully formed to diminish the impact of a charge and is no longer exposed?  

Perhaps forming hedgehog for a P&M unit ought to be considered as an additional REACTION option?

I think the negative modifiers and disorder represent the morale fear of having enemy in a flank position - remember that getting a flank attack is not easy in Baroque/Impetus, you have to be seriously behind the unit's flank.

Disorder just reflects that fear and the fact that the unit isn't in its best/most optimal facing. Disorder in combat just makes it more likely you will take actual losses and that is important in terms of CT and flank attacks - it needn't be read as literal disorder necessarily.