Impetus in Adelaide - Spartan vs Indians

We had our first Impetus game at Group North Adelaide and it went well. Rules were quick and seemed to play smoothly. I think there will definitely be more Impetus games at Group North.

Now on to the game. We had 2 x 300 point 15mm armies on a 5 x 3 table. We no doubt got a few rules wrong, but I was interested in the tactics. How do you approach a line of shooters like the Indians with Hoplites and not get disordered? Mike alternated bow and elephants and it was quite tough. Does a single hit cause disorder? It is hard not to get a hit at close range, wih the Indians firing 5 or 6 dice. Of course, like a fool, I did not bother to use large units in any of my Hoplites. Next time...

The Greek javelin skirmishers were very useful to defend the flanks. So were the peltasts. In fact, everything worked well except the Hoplite line... Oh well.

Selaurant,
First, welcome to the engaging and exciting world of IMPETVS.
Can appreciate and commiserate with getting a few rules wrong . . . a look at the latest QRS sheet (available on this very forum) will no doubt result in the purchase of a magnifying glass and perhaps a few aspirin (ha ha). There is quite a bit to remember.

I do believe a single hit would cause disorder. (Those more experienced with IMPETVS will not doubt weigh in . . . ) If memory serves, hoplites tend to have a high VBU. Let us say that your unit has a VBU of 6 and is targeted by a volley from an Indian archer unit. A hit on the hoplites will drop the VBU to 5 and so the cohesion test will be a 5. However, I believe this is modified based on range and troop type. I do not believe that VBUs can be greater than 6 (again, here is where experts will weigh in perhaps). So, if your targeted unit rolls a 6 on its cohesion test, I believe it loses a strength point AND is disordered.

With large units, I believe that the casualties are assigned to the 2nd rank unit. The disorder applies to the large unit. While large units have greater melee power, they sacrifice some ability to move.

Good luck with future games.

Regards,

Chris

A couple suggestions from another newer player:
Use a skirmisher "screen" to cover your approach, then withdraw them just before the charge.
Use second moves to close the gap quicker (but risk disorder).
Charge from farther away than 5U-- remember the extra D3 charge distance.

Large units will still get disordered, but the extra depth means they stay "fresh" longer, and so they retain the Impetus bonus.

Pezhetairoi has it. You'll have a narrower front but have the hitting power to push through those pesky Indian bow.

Ah thanks guys, that is a critical point - you only lose impetus bonus if you lose a point, not if you get disordered.  We got that wrong.

BTW the following quote from my opponent sums up our thoughts on the game:

"Thanks from me too! I think the mechanics are pretty good and we had a feel for them. Some of the fine points in calculating dice for hits and damage will make a difference. I think units will disintegrate far more quickly with the "if you pass but are disordered lose 1 VBU" rule.

First impressions are far more positive than my first impressions of FoG or other earlier rule sets."

It's a shame you can't get to Wintercon (Canberra) next weekend. There's a solid group of experienced Impetus players there. You'd learn a lot from Tarty and the lads.

Hi on this don't forget the FP foot will get an extra plus one on the cohesion test simply because they are FP .. its easy to forget this one.

Jez

Jeztod

Thanks, that is another point I had forgotten, which would have helped the Hoplites, especially once they got into contact. So they are both rolling more melee dice and have a better cohesion test,

What are people's views on the value of upgrading Spear VBU (5 to 6 for Spartans)?

Pezhetairoi wrote:A couple suggestions from another newer player:
Use a skirmisher "screen" to cover your approach, then withdraw them just before the charge.

Not sure you need to withdraw the skirmishers. I think you can just charge through them(?)

AncientWarrior wrote: So, if your targeted unit rolls a 6 on its cohesion test, I believe it loses a strength point AND is disordered.

You always fail the cohesion test on a six, but if you are not already disordered this only causes the disorder, you do not loose a point. If you are already disordered, yees, you will loose a point as well.

pw4379 wrote:If you are already disordered, yees, you will loose a point as well.

Only if you are disordered by shooting or melee. If you are diorderered by another cause (movement through terrain, failed discipline test etc.) disorder doesn't cumulate to a loss of VBU. In this case the first disorder by a combat result does effectively nothing as you are already disordered.

@Jeztod: It also helps viewing the VBU not so much as your offensive capability but more as your ability to withstand blows.
With VBU 5 remaining - even if you lost your Impetus bonus you are still likely to score a hit and it doesen't happen too often that you miss your cohesion test by more than one (and for that case we have that rolls of fate anyways ) while your single hit on a VBU 3 unit will easily result in that unit missing it's test by 2 or more reducing it either to uselessnes or dispersing it alltogether.  

Greymouse wrote:

pw4379 wrote:If you are already disordered, yees, you will loose a point as well.

Only if you are disordered by shooting or melee. If you are diorderered by another cause (movement through terrain, failed discipline test etc.) disorder doesn't cumulate to a loss of VBU. In this case the first disorder by a combat result does effectively nothing as you are already disordered.

Hey, didn't know that. So if you enter a melee disordered because it was a failed discipline test for a second move and you have a hit(s) against you then you don't loose the VBU (assuming the cohesion test is passed)?

Greymouse wrote:

pw4379 wrote:If you are already disordered, yees, you will loose a point as well.

Only if you are disordered by shooting or melee. If you are diorderered by another cause (movement through terrain, failed discipline test etc.) disorder doesn't cumulate to a loss of VBU. In this case the first disorder by a combat result does effectively nothing as you are already disordered.

No.

Once you are disordered for ANY reason a missile or melee hit will result in a "disorder on disorder" loss of 1 VBU even if you pass your cohesion test, it does not matter what caused the first disorder loss.

If you roll a 1 for your cohesion test you always pass and suffer only a disorder, but that still stacks with any existing disorder to cause a loss of 1 VBU.

If you roll a 6 you always fail you cohesion test and suffer both a disorder and 1 "permanent" VBU loss. Note that in this case the "disorder on disorder" does NOT apply as you have taken a VBU loss already. You will also need to test for an attached leader outcome should there be one.

Certain other, non combat related, causes of disorder do not stack with an existing disorder but anything connected with combat most certainly does stack.

pw4379 wrote:

AncientWarrior wrote: So, if your targeted unit rolls a 6 on its cohesion test, I believe it loses a strength point AND is disordered.

You always fail the cohesion test on a six, but if you are not already disordered this only causes the disorder, you do not loose a point. If you are already disordered, yees, you will loose a point as well.

No.

Failing on a 6 means you have failed the cohesion test and take at LEAST one VBU permanent loss as well as being disordered if you are not already.

You also determine the outcome for any attached leader.

pw4379 wrote:

Pezhetairoi wrote:A couple suggestions from another newer player:
Use a skirmisher "screen" to cover your approach, then withdraw them just before the charge.

Not sure you need to withdraw the skirmishers. I think you can just charge through them(?)

Interpenetrate and they move to the rear of the moving unit, yes.

Granicus Gaugamela wrote:

No.

Once you are disordered for ANY reason a missile or melee hit will result in a "disorder on disorder" loss of 1 VBU even if you pass your cohesion test, it does not matter what caused the first disorder loss.

Oops - you are right, sorry - I blame Alzheimer for remembering wrong...

Granicus Gaugamela wrote:

pw4379 wrote:

AncientWarrior wrote: So, if your targeted unit rolls a 6 on its cohesion test, I believe it loses a strength point AND is disordered.

You always fail the cohesion test on a six, but if you are not already disordered this only causes the disorder, you do not loose a point. If you are already disordered, yees, you will loose a point as well.

No.

Failing on a 6 means you have failed the cohesion test and take at LEAST one VBU permanent loss as well as being disordered if you are not already.

You also determine the outcome for any attached leader.

Oh. Hadn't picked that up. That's what I love about this forum, always learning someting new.