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» Warfare battle of Cunaxa
Problems with Veteran and Elite EmptySat Mar 23, 2024 11:09 am by kenntak

» Ilipa 206BC Society of Ancients Battle Day
Problems with Veteran and Elite EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:16 pm by ejc

» Dice&Lead magazine
Problems with Veteran and Elite EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 8:36 am by dadiepiombo

» Errata updated
Problems with Veteran and Elite EmptyMon Mar 18, 2024 8:39 am by dadiepiombo

» Mamluks in Ayyubids Egyptians
Problems with Veteran and Elite EmptyFri Feb 09, 2024 11:43 am by Robert Gargan

» Army Scale in Creating Scenarios
Problems with Veteran and Elite EmptyFri Jan 19, 2024 7:51 am by kenntak

» Army Builder Issue
Problems with Veteran and Elite EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 9:59 am by jorneto

» Scottish Wars of Independence
Problems with Veteran and Elite EmptyMon Jan 08, 2024 6:41 pm by archibald the grim

» Hoplites equipped with Hoplon
Problems with Veteran and Elite EmptyMon Jan 08, 2024 3:57 pm by kenntak

Warfare battle of Cunaxa

Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:26 pm by ejc

Sorry for short notice we are putting on the above scenario on Saturday 11th …

Comments: 4

Ilipa 206BC Society of Ancients Battle Day

Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:54 pm by ejc

This year's SOA Battle Day is Ilipa206BC will be about a dozen games all re …

Comments: 1

SELWG 2023 Thapsus 46BC

Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:29 pm by ejc

We will putting on the above game at SELG 2023 on Sunday 15th October. Forum …

Comments: 6

Colours 2023

Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:14 pm by ejc

Sorry for very short notice. We are putting on a game at colours on Saturday …

Comments: 0

Salute 2023

Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:49 pm by jorneto

Any Impetus games in this event?

Comments: 10

Society of Ancients Battle Day

Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:15 pm by ejc

Sorry for the short notice.
Our group is attending this event in Newbury on …

Comments: 3

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Problems with Veteran and Elite

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Problems with Veteran and Elite Empty Problems with Veteran and Elite

Post by stecal Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:58 pm

I think the rules for veteran and elite need to be rethought. Negating hits in all cases is just too powerful. Perhaps negate 1 hit only when fresh or negate the 1 hit AFTER the cohesion test?

I had a problem today in a melee with 2 beatup veteran units fighting each other. With only 2-4 dice each, a single hit is often the best you can do, but with the hit negation the melee just keeps ending in draws

stecal
VBU 3
VBU 3

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Join date : 2015-02-06
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Problems with Veteran and Elite Empty Re: Problems with Veteran and Elite

Post by stecal Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:35 pm

After 2 games we have come to the conclusion that the veteran & elite rules are not working. They just break too many parts of the fire, melee & CT game mechanisms.

stecal
VBU 3
VBU 3

Posts : 233
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Problems with Veteran and Elite Empty Re: Problems with Veteran and Elite

Post by dadiepiombo Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:11 pm

ok, thank you for feedback.

Well they are powerful, but consider
1) they are in limited numbers
2) they have the same VBU of less trained troops, or better, less trained troops can benefit of the same VBU of veterans as too low VBU would make them not enough string to sustain melees.
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Problems with Veteran and Elite Empty Re: Problems with Veteran and Elite

Post by dadiepiombo Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:19 pm

stecal wrote:I had a problem today in a melee with 2 beatup veteran units fighting each other. With only 2-4 dice each, a single hit is often the best you can do, but with the hit negation the melee just keeps ending in draws

One option could be that the rule for Veteran/Elite doesn't work if Veteran/Elite is firing or in melee. I mean in case of 2 Veterans in melee or a Veteran shot at by another Veteran, then no bonus.
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Problems with Veteran and Elite Empty Re: Problems with Veteran and Elite

Post by stecal Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:17 pm

Well half the Zulu list is veteran.


stecal
VBU 3
VBU 3

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Problems with Veteran and Elite Empty Re: Problems with Veteran and Elite

Post by Tromolone Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:46 am

In the napoleonic sample lists I found veterans with the same VBU of Elites, not Trained units..
However, I have not yet tried the game but I could suggest trying to reverse the bonuses, so that only Elite units can benefit from the "first hit cancellation bonus".

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Problems with Veteran and Elite Empty Re: Problems with Veteran and Elite

Post by dadiepiombo Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:56 pm

thanks, I'll take note.
With the new year I plan to give a refresh to the rules.
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Problems with Veteran and Elite Empty Re: Problems with Veteran and Elite

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