Impetus popularity

Being new to the impetus world I’m curious about its popularity, where it is played, what are its numbers, either absolute or comparatively to other rules.

What are the current trends: declining, stable, growing?
And the disappearance of Spain and the US from the League? It’s just the competition or did they stop playing?

Being an ex-FOG player I tend use it as basis for comparisons. Both its forum and the competitions events and ELO ranking, show a reasonable high level of activity. That makes me think that impetus numbers are much smaller.

But speaking about FOG, it seems to have run its course and is reaching the end of the line. There’s already (at least) another ruleset taking position to be the next mainstream system: the french “Art de la Guerre” (or AdG).

It’s very popular in France (of course!) and with the help of known FOG gamers is getting attention in the UK, Spain and the US (also some rumours in Greece and Germany).

Perhaps an excellent opportunity for Impetus too?

I've sensed this trend from FoG for awhile. Still the regular die hard FoG players at conventions but not many new faces.
Can only go off tournaments however as I don't see it played anywhere else, Impetus has taken over the other groups clubs etc that I frequent these days

The Hellfire Club plays Impetus Rich?

Not dripping hot wax over my guys..... though many do have a thing for leather wear.
Your not staying on topic GG

Impossible question to answer

My small group are all fully converted - we rebased all our DBM armies. Can't see us looking elsewhere for a game.

Haven't managed to make much headway into the local clubs though. Currently they are dabbling with ADG and Sword & Spear but FoG and FoG:N still have a hold though.

I think much depends on the game style and expectations. For people used to a mechanical, micro-management trivia driven game Impetus doesn't seem to offer much, I find it attracts those who were never that impressed by the DBM > FoG direction of travel.

I agree with that. There's much on personal taste and style when choosing a game system (even if there many passionate pros and cons discussions).

Of course moving in at the right moment might do wonders to give visibility to a ruleset. I think we are at one of those moments with the FOG players looking around for their next game.

So far I've been successful with the local players. Basically I put people gaming before asking their opinions!

And the 9-10 pages of Basic Impetus are unbeatable to learn - even by the old brains of current wargamers. And that would be another discussion: how to attract the younger people to the hobby.

well it is a question difficult to answer also for me.
The main difference between Impetus and FoG is that FoG is an Osprey product and was supported by the competitive community in UK. This lead to be the heir of DBM. FoG is a tournament set. Impetus is also a tournament set, but above all Impetus populairy grow slower as a more "indipendent" game.
In other terms popularity of Impetus has been created only by players not by advertising. I think it is the same for ADG as an indipendent games as well.

ADG by the way is more DBM style, while Impetus is a different system (even if the creator, me, was a DBM player, so some influence is still present)

Impetus is popular in some countries less in others.
Much depend on its fans and clubs supporting competitions.
Lately I have registerd and increase in sales from France.

As for the USA I think it is popular but not in competitions.

dadiepiombo wrote:well it is a question difficult to answer also for me.
The main difference between Impetus and FoG is that FoG is an Osprey product and was supported by the competitive community in UK. This lead to be the heir of DBM. .

I don't think it's the publishing house (Osprey ) - FOG was the baby of a junta of DBM players who were at the top of the championship tables. It split the DBM authors and community in half (with DBMM) and was manifestly determined to be a "better written" set of tight, micromanagement tournament rules. Exactly what the vocal adherents of DBM tournament play had been driving DBM to be for several years.

It's a very different animal to Impetus and both sets appeal to a broadly different set of gamers. I know of no-one who enjoys both and very few prepared to play both. The play styles are about as diametrically opposed as possible.

That doesn't make one better than the other - it does mean they are not really in competition with each other for the same market. It does explain the popularity that ADG is having at my local club as they move from FOG

Both are tournament rules true but any game can be played in a tournament - it's the play style that sets them apart. From what I'm hearing (and I haven't played or seen) but Sword & Spear may be more a competitor to Impetus than FOG (or DBMM) ever were or will be.

Hearing a fair bit about S&P lately interesting you should bring that up Zippee.

FoG players certainly are a different breed. Many hooked on the idea still that they're the 'universally accepted' rule set....this seems to be a big selling point. As Lorenzo says it's a publishing company they can make a much bigger splash...it's all about selling books for them after all. Seeing lots of copies of FoG army lists at the second hand stalls though...always a sign.

Can't comment on ADG I haven't heard much at all other than from a group that seems to play a different set of rules every week so probably not that reliable.

Tarty wrote:Hearing a fair bit about S&P lately interesting you should bring that up Zippee.

The USP mostly seems to be about the interleaved activation process based on random draw of 7 dice each turn. I like the sound of it but. . .

What I've heard of the actual combat and move mechanics sound rather old hat.

So mixed feelings - I'm open to giving them a whirl but they're not tempting me to splash out on them.

Interesting, that theory of different types of  players and rules.

Let’s see. I played WRG 6th, tried DBM but didn’t like. I ended jumping over the entire DBM era. Restarted gaming with a local set called Arcane Warfare for a brief period then followed with FOG which I won’t miss. Perhaps I’m now with my “natural” style of rules.

On the other hand one of my fellow gamers might be an exception to that rule. He is (was!) a very strong adept of DBM, very reluctant FOG player – because it was the only way to get in a game. But, after trying Impetus he immediately changed his “allegiance” to this rules!

I guess that the system that manages to “ride the wave” perhaps by advertising or getting reviews by influential people or with industry support will become dominant, popular, fashionable. It will get many players to join the ranks as the only way to keep playing the period wether they really like the rules or not.

I left Ancients just as DBA/DBM were floating in. I played a few games and thought they were a bit twee.

WRG 7th was my last serious set before Impetus.

I rate Impetus very highly. They provide a good feel for the nature of a battle. They are not perfect (what is?) but they have been good enough to drag me back into conventions.

Anyone who knows me appreciates the significance of that.

We tend to use BI (and its Baroque variant which we've varied even more) Impetus, and also versions of DBA/Hordes of the things

Jim

France, ADG was released before impetus and especially before the French translation. So Impetus gently settles in France, but it grows, we try to promote the game as often as we can

spock wrote:
France, ADG was released before impetus and especially before the French translation. So Impetus gently settles in France, but it grows, we try to promote the game as often as we can

So do I

starkadder wrote:I left Ancients just as DBA/DBM were floating in.

Jim Webster wrote:We tend to use BI (and its Baroque variant which we've varied even more) Impetus, and also versions of DBA/Hordes of the things.

Just to be clear, my comments were specifically about the development of DBM, DBMM and FOG and other micromanagement games (Shock of Impact, WRG 1-7, Ancient Empires, etc.). The development of DBA and HOTT is completely separate.

They may sound the same but DBA is far closer to BI than DBM is to Impetus. BI and Impetus are the same game - very much a chrome or not choice. DBA and DBM, whilst sharing a common lineage, grew further and further apart with each iteration of DBM. In truth I'd say DBA is closer to BI than it is to DBMM

I don't know, BI and full Impetus are very different games, the difference in movement, the difference in ability to countercharge, even the addition of the concept of discipline.

Sure Jim,
They have very different levels of chrome and this produces a very different play experience although the mechanisms are identical where they exist in both.

But in style they are the same - concentration on maintaining order and fluid play, not geometric gimmickry and micro-measurement.

Which is to be expected as BI is a stripped down Impetus.

DBA is not a stripped down DBM it's a different game, similar engine; in the same way that a lawnmower 2-stroke is the same basic engine design as a RR Merlin. . .

Poor analogy - I do not mean to imply that DBM is the rolls Royce of wargames engines!

As a painter the big difference is the basing. Visually you are able to get a lot more in which I think is a huge selling point in gamers making decision on what to play (most of us paint)

I constantly avoided all those miniatures that were advancing with spear thrust forward as they could never rank up properly on other basing systems. There are also a lot of dynamic poses and equipment that could not be added to the bases (of course unless it was on a baggage element) that never made it in the armies.

I have also found that because of the bigger basing that movement has been easier (less fiddling around) which lends to quicker turns and therefore less cumbersome.

My wife's comment on the basing is "great now I can actually see the figures, with WRG bases they were too crowded".

All for the big bases - one of the main selling points of Impetus. Also a mixed curse though as the "I have to rebase" assumption turns many away before you can explain you don't have to

The critical difference between the DB games and (Basic)Impetus is that the former conceive of combat as a matter of manoeuvre. Fights are won by getting round the enemy unit from the flank. The Impetus system, while taking outflanking into account os essentially about combat attrition, the loss of strength points in a melee, and thus a far more faithful rendition of what pre gunpowder combat was really like. DBA always seemed to me to be only a game, totally divorced from reality.

basing is strictly related to the game system.
It all started many years ago with me thinking that DBM with bigger bases would have solved many of the issues I didn't like (the taking on the flank as the main)

1ngram wrote:The critical difference between the DB games and (Basic)Impetus is that the former conceive of combat as a matter of manoeuvre.  Fights are won by getting round the enemy unit from the flank.  The Impetus system, while taking outflanking into account os essentially about combat attrition, the loss of strength points in a melee, and thus a far more faithful rendition of what pre gunpowder combat was really like.  DBA always seemed to me to be only a game, totally divorced from reality.

Another accurate description - amazing the different number of ways we can interpret 'game play', no wonder reviews have such little real value

Strange that Impetus is about attrition but allows much more generous movement and reactions. DB is about manoeuvre but concentrates detail on combat quality and micromanagement of position.

What you say is true of the end result but not the process, weird

Hmm that's a hard question to answer. First off I would think we should talk about scale.

This is with the understanding Impetus is my personal game of choice here is my humble observations.

15mm- No question FOG has been the most popular game of the last few years in terms of numbers, however as some have pointed out that seems to waning. I for one would be happy as I never much cared for it. DBA is making a comeback and like others have said ADG and S&S are pushing in.

28mm- Since the death of the king WAB which hands down dominated this scale for a decade their really hasn't been a dominating system since. Lots of games getting close to equal shares here at the moment.

So where does Impetus fit in? I think it's pretty popular in both scales, while it may even have more 15mm players due to not having to re-base from other systems I think it perhaps is seen as more of a competitor in 28mm mainly due to it's figure flexibility which naturally is a major factor at a large scale. In fact I think BI really is picking up some speed here. From looking around I see a lot of HC, S&S and Impetus in this scale.

Impetus retains a constant presence on the gaming scene and so is a good choice for a gaming system to play as one can expect to find someone playing and with a revised edition on the horizon I expect it grow even more.

Christopher

Impetus i believe is still a popular game, but new rulesets are getting more play time and exposure in the "gaming press".

Its difficult to say how popular it still is, as many players probably just play the game but dont advertise it by displaying it on blogs etc.

I reckon a new, shiney and updated rulebook would go a long way to cementing the game as a firm favorite among ancient and medieval gamers.

Steve