Battle of Zama

We've been play testing this battle with a view to staging it at a show later in the year. we've play tested several battles over recent weeks but this one seems to have caught on in our group and has generated sufficient interest that its being played simultaneously in 15mm & 28mm so thought I would share it with you.
I attach the army lists we are using (3rd version may not be the last!) You will see that the Roman list has gone for the large unit option.
The 3 Carth. commands are deployed one behind the other and as you will see if the romans defeat the 1st & 2nd lines the game would be over before the Carth. veterans fight so to make the game playable we adopted the following:-
1/ When the first 2 Carth. commands break only count half of their total command VD's towards the army break point. This means the rear rank of Carth. veterans would also need to take significant losses to lose. (Alternatively you could ignore the army break point and just say that each command has got to be routed to defeat the carth.).
2/Carth. ignore the effects that would usually apply on reaching third loses for each command.
3/ Usual rules apply to break roman army which also suffer usual penalties when reaching one third loses.
4/ The 2 roman generals cannot engage in melee so have to detach if the unit they are attached to comes into contact with the enemy. the Numidian general Masinissa can engage in Melee.
Hannibal cannot engage in melee and has to detach same as roman generals. The other 2 Carth. generals can engage in melee.

As the carth. middle command has cavalry on both ends of its line there is a control issue. We haven't but you could consider having an extra genaral on one flank that gives no extra bonus's but only counts for counting units in command could give him a control range of say 2H.

If any of you have refought this battle would appreciate to hear from you how you approached it. Its a bit of a balancing act with the army lists to make it playable.

will attach our army lists and photos of deployment.

Looking forward to seeing how the battle goes

Excellent idea. I have used your work to craft a scenario for Basic Impetus 2 Great Battles. All I need to do is procure the Middle Republican Romans (and will be putting down the deposit today). Might be one or two months before I get to play the game. Will do an AAR.

Yes Atheling will put will put a short resume of the battle on the forum after we finish it this wednesday should know then how well it works or whether the scenario/army lists need amending.
The hope is that the Roman FP have lost some rear ranks or have taken sufficient loses after defeating the 1st 2 lines to give the Carth. rear rank of vets. a chance. Will just have to see.
Sun of York hope you enjoy painting the Romans its a very good army to have as has plenty of enemies to fight. Haven't played basic impetus but hope you get this scenario to play well.
If we put our game on at a show later in the year you would be welcome to join us.

Sorry just realised haven't given resume of the battle which finished a few weeks ago. it was a cracking fight and went down to the wire.
The Roman skirmishers and Carth. 1st  line(command) soon got stuck in a fairly even fight. At the same time the Libyian LC on the right of the Roman army put pressure on the Cath. left flank (part of there centre command) causing them severe damage damage. Although the mounted combat on the other flank ended up fairly even one of the Carth. CM units broke through and were able to catch a LU of Roman Inf. in the flank, the Romans were really/really lucky with their CT test and survived.
Gaps started to appear in the skirmish line and the Carth. 2nd line(command) starting to get engaged 2LU's of Gauls being 1st to charge. At each end of this carth. line were 2 units of citizen spearmen one of which on each flank peeled off to defend the inf's flanks. fighting was intense but the Carth line broke which included any remaining units of mounted on each flank. By this time the Romans had lost one rear unit with the other rear units receiving severe damage and had lost their formation. This was the time for the Carth. rear line (command) of Vet spearmen to charge. The romans got the initiative and managed to get some of their disorder off and straighten their line a bit before the Carth's charged. Before the charge the 2 end units peeled off to prevent flank attacks.
The Romans started to lose units a successful Carth. unit had the opportunity to follow up and contact to units of Roman inf both 1 away from breaking but failed to pursue the loss of those 2 units would have broken the roman army, instead the 2 flank units of Carth's broke one taken out by sustained fire from Libyian LC and skirmishers which was sufficient to break the command, game over.
We played a what if scenario assuming that Carth. unit pursued, they destroyed the 2 roman units which would have meant an honourable draw.
While we played it was also played in 15mm which ended up as a comfortable roman win. Those players thought it might be wise to reduce the 2 of the 3 legions to B class.
Will put a couple of pics. on soon.

The Gauls getting stuck in

The veteran spearmen attack

I've had a go at this battle using Great Battles for Basic Impetus 2.0. It worked surprising well and will certainly withstand playing again. My AAR and related OOB info can be found here: https://onesidedminiaturewargamingdiscourse.blogspot.com/2022/06/the-battle-of-zama.html

Really impressed Sun of York on your presentation and write up I don't have the IT skills to replicate. If any of you just breezed by the previous posting recommend you go back to it and click on the lick.
Not having played basic impetus i assumed there would be very few units was surprised to see good size armies and well down to Sun of York for painting up the romans so quickly.
Think main difference between our games is that i think your Carth. 3rd line is not right behind the 2nd but slightly to one side, in ours it is immediately behind the 2nd so couldn't get engaged until 2nd command is destroyed or has gaps appearing.In our game both our armies foot cover about the same frontage but the Roman triarii if given the chance can move out to give a bit more width.
Shame you didn't fight it to the bitter end. Alan who's task it was to organise this one for us was hoping that the scenario would give approx 60% chance of roman victory so still gave the Carth. chance of victory and make worthwhile playing. Idealy hoping for Romans to break !st & 2nd Carth. commands so its then down to how badly the damaged the Roman foot are and crucially who gets initiative when the Carth. 3rd command gets engagaed.
It took about 3 games tweeking the army lists to come up with lists that that for us gave a good game. I can only game once a week but some of the other guys game 2 or 3 times so only took about 3 weeks to come up with final version.
Glad you enjoyed doing an historical one, think its good for us we learn from the research. Done a couple more since this one.
It looks like you won't be able to join our group at a show as your link shows you're western Aust. we're in the UK anyway enjoy your battles.

Thanks.

Just to clarify, the Romans were an opportunity purchase. Previously I had acquired a Roman DBA army and then had the good luck to buy some partially painted miniatures to match. Then a whole army came available! It allowed me to do Zama straightaway.

The Carthaginian 3rd Line was set up directly behind, but the guy that took over running them moved them to the right, but still in the rear. A good decision as it turned out.

We fought to the end, if not the bitter end. The Romans had lost one legion, but the Carthaginian second line was all that was left and it was sitting at 8 or 10 (with a break point of 9) so it was curtains for them.

I get about one Basic Impetus game per fortnight on average. Great for when you just have a few hours in an evening. The Great Battles option adds in multiplayers, but that can be like herding cats.

What I really want to do is run a campaign.