Bosporan Greek Army

Hello all. I've picked up a Bosporan Greek army for some other 15mm systems and was hoping to bring it over to Impetus. Since there's no list for them, I was wondering what people would suggest?

rather depends on the sub-period. Start with Ionian Greek I guess and tweak.

Early would probably have Getic as enemies / allies / mercenaries. Later should be able to crib from Mithridatic Lists.

In either case you should be able to add FL javelin types - Kappadokian, Bithynian or Pamphylian to add to Thracian

Probably more native horse than most due to nature of the environment - no Thessalians, etc. but access to Getic and Skythian for sure.

I suppose a lot depends on which coast of the Euxine you're looking at.

Seems reasonable.  As far as the location, I'm looking to do the Spartokid kingdom of the Cimmerian Bosporus.  As far as I can tell, the list should be weighted towards lancers rather than horse archers, use Hoplites or Thureophoroi rather than Phalangites, and have a decent amount of spear/javelin/bowmen from the Sindi and Maeotians. They may also have been early adopters of Thorakitai as Tacitus describes them as fighting "armed on our [Roman] model" during a battle in the first century.

if you have enough info to share a possible list I would be happy to collect this army as well as others in a pdf with additional lists.

Bosporan Kingdom 348 BCE – 108 BCE
This list covers the period from the ascension of Parysades I, the first king to rule the kingdom as a major regional power, to the vassalization of the kingdom by Mithridates of Pontus.



Lancers
Wealthy Bosporans rode to battle as lancers, likely equipped similarly to their Scythian and Sarmatian neighbours.  While fearsome, they would not have had the discipline and professionalism of elites like the Hetairoi.  I’ve given them stats similar to other ‘light’ heavy cavalry such as Bythinian lancers or xystophoroi.  One unit per command can be upgraded to ‘bodyguard’ level as is standard for armies with mounted generals.

Horse Archers
Those without the means to afford the full equipment of a lancer but still rich enough for a horse would have fought as mounted archers.  Again, in similar fashion to the Scythians and Sarmatians who shared the region with them.  This group also likely includes members of the nomadic tribes who are fighting alongside the Bosporans as allies, subjects, or mercenaries.

Militia
The exact nature of the militias that replaced ‘classic’ hoplites at some point before the rise of the Spartokids is somewhat unclear.  What evidence we have is limited to artwork and some fragmentary and off-hand descriptions.  As best can be told, these men were equipped with a spear, shield, and possibly armour.  Some written accounts refer to these as hoplites but the Greeks used the term for any soldiers who fought with spear and shield in close order.  Other systems present these troops as broadly similar to thureophoroi, so they are equipped as such here.

Hoplites
While the Bosporan cities did not provide ‘classic’ hoplites, Diodorus records the presence of mercenary hoplites fighting in the traditional style during the civil war late in the 4th century BCE.  Given the ubiquity of Greek mercenaries in the time period, it is likely that they were a fairly regular presence in Bosporan armies.

Javelinmen and Bowmen
The Sindi and Maeotians were the two largest subject peoples of the Bosporan Kingdom.  Both groups provided tribute in the form of money and manpower to their overlords.  These levies seem to have been armed primarily with bows or javelins.  Other systems allow for Sindi and Maeotian levies to fight as skirmishers or en masse so both options are allowed for here.

Slingers
Like so many contemporary states, the poorest elements of the military fought with whatever they could scrounge up, frequently the slings used to keep wolves away from valuable flocks of sheep and goats.

Thracian Mercenaries
In addition to the Greek mercenaries, Diodorus’ account also mentions the Bosporan king Satyros II hiring Thracian peltasts to fight for him.  As with the Greeks, Thracian mercenaries were to be found everywhere in the region.

The numbers for the hoplites might actually be low given that Diodorus seems to draw attention to the fact that the numbers present in the civil war are lower than what would be expected ‘… not more than two thousand Greek mercenaries’ and given the great wealth of the kingdom, a larger force would not be unthinkable.

Having the Thracians present along with the Sindi/Maeotian javelinmen might be somewhat redundant but, historically, both would have been present in significant numbers.  I was somewhat tempted to use the Romphaia wielding Thracians instead of the normal Thracian peltasts but those are (and, arguably, should be) unique to the Thracian army lists.

136 minimum, 934+6/command maximum

Most of us who put lists together tend to over rate the units. I think I would downgrade the Militia to VBU4 C. Also, VBU4 Archers are top of the line. I am not aware they Bosporian foot archery was top notch. I think a VBU3 C rating is more appropriate. Also down grade the Sindi Javelinmen to C class.

Downgrading the javelins and bows seems right in retrospect. I actually like the javelin downgrade since it makes the Thracians stand out.

The Militia are rated as Thureophoroi equals which is be what other systems use. I can't really see any reason to make them lower quality. The Greek sources still refer to them as hoplites and they'll be noted as similar to Roman infantry, if of presumably lesser quality, by Tacitus within the next century.

There's so little evidence to go one. Let's see what others think.

Oh, absolutely. So much of what we have is fragmentary or open to interpretation that it can be hard to come up with an accurate picture.

I think keep the militia/thureophoroi as they are - they're hardly a super troop! And in a horse archer world the mercenary hoplite FP stand out as a decidedly more durable, giving a reason to take them.

Downgrade the Sindi as suggested - as mentioned it gives purpose to employing Thracians.

Similarly the upgraded horse archers might be Getic or Scythian for flavour.

I'm slightly concerned at the number of 0 to X entries, this gives a lot of flexibility to a list, although the (0) options help. Not sure I can see a way past that though given the list's limitations.

I also agree with the downgrade of the javelinmen to D=C and the T archers to VBU 3 and D=C. For the cavalry I think it should be more similar to the Scythian list (minimuns as well). A small increase in the numbers of horse and foot archers is needed.

The list minimum at 136pts is fine.

I would suggest the list end date to be extended to 63 BC to cover the pontic client phase. Hoplites and cataphracts would be excluded “exchanged” by galatians and by Lancers in sarmatian style.
It would look like this:

@jorneto Most of that looks good.  Remember, though, that this is a Scythian influenced Hellenic kingdom not the other way around, I'm using the Armenian and Parthian numbers for cavalry because of that.  I'm also not sure that the Bosporans ever fielded cavalry that was heavy enough to be called cataphracts.  Giving the option for Scythian-style heavy horse archers is probably the right call but the Hellenic side should be primary and the Scythian secondary.  Extending through the Pontic period is probably fine, I'll just add mercenary thorakitai since we have records showing that the kingdom was still employing Greek mercenaries in substantial enough numbers that they needed to start paying in land rather than gold.

@Zippee It's a similar amount of flexibility to most Hellenic lists just with the minimums in cavalry instead of pike.  If you really feel like there should be more minima, make the militia, javelinmen, and archers all require the minimum if any of the three are taken.  Field of Glory handles them that way.



CS Poor/Average.
Hoplites may only be taken up to 108 BCE.
Thorakitai and Galatians may only be taken from 108 BCE.
Hoplites and Galatians may form large units with same type.

148-960 points up to 108
148-992 points from 108

What is the thinking of hoplites as late as 108 BC? I don't know of any other list with hoplites this late.

Also, there is a lot of CP in this list (more than in the Scythian list.) Is there reason to think that heavy cavalry was this dominant?

Also, in the Later Selecuid list there is a max of 2 units of Thorakitai. 4 units without extenuating reasons seems high to me.

I would keep the Sindi Javelinmen at VBU4. Moving them from B to C weakens them sufficiently.

The Insaniac wrote:
@Zippee It's a similar amount of flexibility to most Hellenic lists just with the minimums in cavalry instead of pike.  If you really feel like there should be more minima, make the militia, javelinmen, and archers all require the minimum if any of the three are taken.

I'm happy enough as it stands - the (0) options keep it in check. it's just something to be aware of is all.

You may well be right about the hoplites. I could easily imagine hoplites vanishing late 3rd-early 2nd century. However, to my understanding, the Bosporans were somewhat behind the 'modern' form of Hellenic warfare and may have continued using iphikratid hoplites much later than elsewhere. I'm mostly just using the end of the Spartokids as a convenient stopping point for them, however.

From what I can tell, the Bosporans relied very heavily on heavy cavalry compared to their neighbours as a Hellenic carry-over. I've given them the same numbers as Armenians and Parthians because as a settled kingdom rather than a migratory tribe, they are likely to have had better access to the money and equipment to field large groups of armoured lancers. At minimum, the artwork that has been recovered tends to show horsemen equipped with lances fairly frequently as far as I have seen.

The Achaean League get three units of thorakitai and the late Macedonians get four while the Seleucids have a buffet of small choices. We know from historical records that the Bosporans had Greek mercenaries present in large numbers throughout the period, enough that they were being paid in land rather than coin despite the kingdom's wealth. These might, certainly, have been closer to thureophoroi but for the sake of variety and because the Bosporans definitely moved towards a Roman military model (they would be described as 'equipped in our style' by Tacitus during the 1st century AD) I'm setting them as heavier.

I was wondering about the javelins. VBU 4, discipline C seems fair. A second look at the book says that's about right.

@Gaius Cassius About the hoplites, you’re right of course. Perhaps up to 200 BC. If we consider them a backwater that might be acceptable even if on the generous side.
I also go for a max of 2 thorakitai.

@ The Insaniac The bosporans armies seem to always have very large quantities of scythians. The greeks for their part progressively adapted to the style of their closer neighbours and foes. First scythians then sarmatians.
For those reasons I think the cavalry should closely follow first the scythian list and then the sarmatian (in the latter, most of the CL would be replaced by more CM).
The CM and the CP1/CP2 should be seen as composed by both greeks and steppe people.

If people think 4 thorakitai is too high, I'd be more inclined to go with 3 than 2 to give them the same as the Achaean League who are the only current list with 'Mercenary Thorakitai' as an option.

@jorneto From what I've read, the kingdom was heavily Hellenic until just before the Pontic period. After that point, the balance began to swing very heavily in favour of the Scythians and, later, Sarmatians. A list that covers the Roman client period would be the one with a significant Sarmatian lean but this is still mostly the Hellenic period of the kingdom. That later list would probably have a CP/CM split like your suggestion does. Must take CM horse archers, can (should) take CP lancers. That's also where I could see upping the lancers to cataphracts, ironically. The Sarmatian influence seems to have extended to armouring the horses with padding.

And yes, I agree that the CP and CM would historically have been a mix of Greeks and steppe peoples, the only reason I've got them listed separately in the roster is to give a clearer distinction for players who may not be familiar with exactly what is happening with this list and because they would probably be weighted similarly to how they're listed (i.e. more nomads in the CM, more Greeks in the CP).

My impression is that sarmatian influence was already under way during the pontic period.

Anyway concerning the list, there are to many CP's. Scythians and sarmatians can have a maximum of 6 and are mainly cavalry lists. The bosporan list, being more even on foot and mounted shouldn't have more than 4.

Not really. The whole reason that the Bosporan asked the Ponts to take over was to prevent the Scythianisation of their kingdom. Much of that pressure was from the Sarmatians showing up far to the east and pushing the previously content Scythian tribes west. Those tribes then started putting pressure on the Bosporans and would continue to do so until the middle of the first century when they were essentially all destroyed or absorbed by various powers. Royal names start to become Iranian/Sarmatian in 47 BCE with Asander and then in 8 BCE with Aspurgus, after whom there are only two kings with Hellenic names. That suggests to me that Sarmatian culture has extended throughout the nobility at some point in the mid-late 1st century BCE, just after the Pontic period.

I've given the list the same amount of cavalry as the Armenians but with lighter heavy horse. The Bosporan army was cavalry focused and weighted heavily toward heavy horse, especially lancers. That's what every other gaming system does for them, so I'm not at all inclined to reduce those numbers. Besides, Scythians are explicitly intended as the 'massed horse archer' list. There should be no competition from anyone in that niche except for the Sarmatians and other nomadic tribes.

The early Parthians can take 20 units of decent light foot. The Armenians can take 47 units of mixed quality light foot. Middle Parthians can take 36 units including pikemen and Hyrcanian heavy foot. The current Bosporan list gets up to 26 units of foot.

Mortem et Gloriam gives 4-24 bases of lancers and 6-30 of horse archers. Field of glory gives 4-12 and 12-36 until 108 then changes to 8-24 and 0-24 with the caveat that the horse archers here would include the CM in this list. ADLG gives 4-12 and 2-12 with, again, the CM included in the horse archers.

For the record, I do appreciate the feedback. Just wanted to make that clear.

@all To deal with the thorakitai numbers and dating of the hoplites, would it be easier to just fold them together as 'Greek Mercenaries FP 5 2 B Long Spear? Drop long spears from the militia to differentiate them. That should approximate everything from Iphikratid hoplites to thorakitai without needing to be specific about precisely which form the Greeks are in.

I find the FoG lists well thought out. Is there any chance that you could scan the list and post it here for us to look at? It might be a good idea as a first step to try to adapt this list to Impetus with the understanding that not everything easily translates.

Not a problem. Field of Glory and ADLG lists for the Bosporans.

Here are my suggestions based on the FOG list. I didn't put any of the S troops because I have no issue with them. I only made list up to 108BC so there are some troop types missing. I think the original list gives the Bosporian player far too many options.

You do realize that list caps at 573 points, right?

I didn't make up a complete list. Nonetheless, fair enough about total size. It was more about the proportions. Based on the FOG list the ratio of the units should be apportioned as below. Some lists have more points than others because some armies have more variableness than others. How much variability is there in the Bosporian military? That is a matter of conjecture. My suspicion is that it is not as high as Persians or Romans or Carthaginians.

Lancers 1
Horse Archers 3
Militia 1
Archers 2
Javelinmen 2
Greek Merc 1
Thracians 1

Up to Pontic period.  Once that period starts, the Sarmatians gain much more influence and the lancers to horse archers ratio shifts further towards lancers.  


Greek mercenaries may form large units.

@Gaius Cassius This falls about in line with what you've got there.  Quadrupling the numbers puts the max points at 954 plus leaders and command structure.  The Greek mercenaries can represent anything from Hoplites to Thorakitai.