Javelin strength in Impetus

I think this has been raised before - and Lorenzo has not really liked it due to the implications of adding a new range band to missile weapons. It could be done, but I suspect it would not really work.

Even accepting a 10U range it would not address the problem of VBU5 javelin armed troops - the problem isnt really the range, its a basket combination of the factor, high vbu and ability to freely inter-penetrate. One solution would be to penalise anyone who is involved in an interpenetration by -1, but again I dont think Lorenzo is happy with that.

Best solution is try "Heavy Javelin" and report back

Being an abuser of Numidan CL for years and more recently the Medieval Irish (see my youtubes vids) and having won tournaments with both I would say light troops are generally too powerful in Impetus.
Their role should be harassment rather than army breakers.
I would bring all CL in line with S and make them VBU 2 with upgrade option to 3. Only someone exceptional like Mongols might get to VBU4.
Similarly FL should be VBU with occasional upgrade to VBU4 - especially for Javelin armed and possibly for Warband supermen too. FL already ignore terrain and get all sorts of melee and charge bonuses. A lower VBU would mean they die quicker.

It would also bring them more in line with the poor old Welsh Medieval archer who is VBU3 with a crappy bow. Basically a skirmisher that can't skirmish. It's a separate issue but is glaring when ranked up against VBU5 Irish super troops with Javelin.

We don't mean a new range band, just a "cap" on the javelin's total range. We'd follow the normal range bands, javelin just wouldn't get to use all of the short range U's.
We are less concerned about the VBU 5 guys, and more concerned about leveling the field for S bow, and others. Heavy javelin is a fine solution for some troop types, but that isn't really what I'm talking about.

Not sure what that achieves, S at 10 U or 15 U is still in the same tactical range for just about everyone - ie 2 moves to reach for anyone other than heavy foot.

I suppose it is a matter of styles - I've never been particularly worried about S troops actual fighting ability, as their main function is to screen the formed troops behind. I've always seen the three main S types as just flavour - slings are much better than javs when stationary, javs have an advantage moving, bows are just the average. Any weapon factor is usually nothing compared to the ability to upgrade to VBU 3

Why not just accept that javelins were only used as a missile weapon by skirmishers and that for all others the effect of javelins is part of melee. Such troops correspond to the old WRG JLS category and would have no separate javelin missile capability at all.

We have a raft of Javelin armed FL that appear in the lists - I'm pretty sure that for now at least Lorenzo will not want to change that

There's nothing to change with the javelin rules in my opinion I think they're great as they are.

The only imbalance as I see it is with VBU 5 FL Javelin... and then only when large numbers of them are fielded as in the Irish list. The few that you can have in the Iberians for example aren't the problem they're 3VD also....big difference.

1ngram wrote:Why not just accept that javelins were only used as a missile weapon by skirmishers and that for all others the effect of javelins is part of melee.  Such troops correspond to the old WRG JLS category and would have no separate javelin missile capability at all.

Were there no other infantry that operated with javelins other than skirmishers?  Perhaps it up for interpretation, yet I see this a bit differently.  My sense of peltast style fighters is that they weren't just skirmishers.  Although that is just my interpretation, and I could be incorrect.

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Beyond that ... I'm not sensing the FL javelin units in the game are that big of an actual issue in the rules, perhaps a minor one in looking at the VBU 5 one's, but seem instead more of an issue in how the players are representing their perception of them, when they are being referred to beyond the VBU 5 one's.  Although that could just be my preception ... lol.

I'm fine with the way Javelins are treated currently. I can honestly see no reason to change them.