Impetuous FL in Ambush

Can you place impetuous FL  in ambush (e.g. a woodland) without fear of them going out of control until you activate them?

This question has probably already been asked at some point, but I could not find any answers on the subject.

thanks.

I see no reason why impetuous units should be unable to be placed in ambush.

Remember that the impetuosity only results in 'out of control' movement once enemy units are within 30u (exceptions apply).

Also remember that impetuous units can be 'held' by being placed on opportunity and that any unit can be deployed 'on opportunity' for free at the start of the game - you would almost certainly wish to do this for impetuous ambushers.

I'd agree - you can hold impetuous FL in ambush - another reason to take scouts

The catch is that Advanced Impetus says that units in ambush are 'no longer considered on Opportunity'. I've always assumed this means that when you place the ambushing unit, whether voluntarily or because an enemy unit has come close to the terrain containing the ambushing unit, you cannot immediately say the ambushing unit is on opportunity.

I can see that this avoids the ambushing unit being able to make an opportunity charge, or opportunity shooting, immediately it is placed. However, for impetuous FL, it seems that they are likely to come running out of the terrain, unless they pass a discipline test to go on opportunity on their first activation, or they can be placed in the terrain in a position in which the visibility rules mean they do not make an out of control movement (out of control movement is only triggered by visible non-S units within 30U).

So although impetuous FL can be placed in ambush, it may be hard to keep them there once you place them on the table.

RogerC

That statement

AI 1.7 wrote:The unit in ambush is no longer considered on Opportunity.

immediately follows the segment about what happens once a unit is revealed to be in ambush.

Once revealed it is not on opportunity and it cannot be revealed 'into combat'.

I do not believe this prevents an ambush unit being 'on opportunity' prior to being revealed.

AI 1.7 wrote:The ambush is revealed when the controlling player decides to activate the hidden Unit or when one enemy Unit comes within 6U of the element of terrain.

At this time it is revealed, it cannot be deployed 'into contact' nor can it be deployed 'on opportunity'. It is the act of revealing that removes the 'on opportunity' status not the status of ambush. Get it right and you can reveal and impetuously charge into contact, get it wrong and you get caught flat-footed.

What you can't do is be revealed and then opportunity charge /fire unless the enemy have transgressed your 5u ZOC - if you want to ambush them at distance you need to reveal and charge in your own turn (at which time being on opportunity or not is irrelevant) 'benefitting' from being 'out of control' if that applies

Thanks, Zippee - I think we are saying the same thing.

I agree that once the ambushing unit is revealed (I talked about the unit being 'placed' in my earlier post) it is not on opportunity. I also agree that a unit in ambush will stay so until it is revealed even if it is impetuous FL. I can see that this is like an impetuous FL unit being on opportunity whilst in ambush, and the revealing of it removes that opportunity status.

Then, once the impetuous FL is revealed (placed) it behaves as any other impetuous unit, and will move unless it can immediately be placed on opportunity or can't see any non-S enemy.

If you think there may be impetuous FL in ambush, is it worth trying to trigger the reveal with S as the impetuous FL will have to ignore the S in any impetuous movement? I know the player revealing the ambushing unit can usually determine its path of movement by choosing the orientation of the unit when revealing it.

RogerC

I think there is an option if you choose to "reveal" an ambush on deployment it can then be on opportunity ?

RogerC wrote:
If you think there may be impetuous FL in ambush, is it worth trying to trigger the reveal with S as the impetuous FL will have to ignore the S in any impetuous movement?  I know the player revealing the ambushing unit can usually determine its path of movement by choosing the orientation of the unit when revealing it.
RogerC

I think that would be a sensible and historic use of S troops.

Or Auxilia or Peltasts

Better than marching your legion or phalanx straight into the wood . . .

Cyrus the Adequate wrote:I think there is an option if you choose to "reveal" an ambush on deployment it can then be on opportunity ?

I don't think so - at least to no effect, the act of revealing, whenever it happens, removes the 'on opportunity' status - otherwise I don't know what the statement

AI 1.7 wrote:The unit in ambush is no longer considered on Opportunity.

means?

Do you see ambush used much in your games? We tend to find it is a dud most of the time.

Gaius Cassius wrote:Do you see ambush used much in your games? We tend to find it is a dud most of the time.

It can be a great counter to flank marches.

If your opponent is known for undertaking flank marches get a suitable piece of terrain and put a couple of CP in there. Given you don't have to specify exactly where they are facing if you keep them hidden then there is the potential to reverse the trap on the flanker and really mess up his day.

Gaius Cassius wrote:Do you see ambush used much in your games? We tend to find it is a dud most of the time.

No - like terrain placement, forward deployment and flank marches our perspective is that these are tournament rules.

We might, on occasion have the ambush effect in play but only because half the table is forest - which wouldn't happen if following the setup rules in AI

[quote="Zippee"]

RogerC wrote:

Cyrus the Adequate wrote:I think there is an option if you choose to "reveal" an ambush on deployment it can then be on opportunity ?

I don't think so - at least to no effect, the act of revealing, whenever it happens, removes the 'on opportunity' status - otherwise I don't know what the statement

AI 1.7 wrote:The unit in ambush is no longer considered on Opportunity.

means?

Advanced pg VI
"Ambushes Revealed During Deployment -
From the moment that a terrain containing an ambush can be extended to the zone of advanced deployment (see the next paragraph) of the opponent, the ambush might be sighted during deployment. In this case, the hidden Units must put be placed on the field immediately. Another possibility is to make the Ambush “visible”. This means positioning the unit directly in the field (in a terrain piece allowable for ambushes). In this case, however, the Unit remains in the original position until
voluntarily moved. It is possible to place this unit on Opportunity"

Basically you can deploy on opportunity if you deploy your ambush in the deployment phase. It's not really an ambush as such but it can be a useful forward deployment option. Could be useful for securing a flank or positioning arty

Fair enough - didn't read the next instalment

But as you say I would question whether you are actually placing them "in ambush" at all!

thanks for all the responses.