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30YW German Protestants

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30YW German Protestants

Post by nosher on Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:35 am

Thoroughly enjoying Baroque - breath of fresh air for renaissance gaming!

Anybody working on a 30YW Protestant list at all?

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Re: 30YW German Protestants

Post by jhykronos on Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:22 pm

nosher wrote:Thoroughly enjoying Baroque - breath of fresh air for renaissance gaming!

Anybody working on a 30YW Protestant list at all?

Hopefully more than one, I would think. There were several German Protestant forces over the course of the thirty years war-

Bohemian/Austrian Rebellions (1618-1620)
Palatinate/Lower Saxon/Baden/Brunswick (1621-1629)
Electorate of Saxony (1618-1648) (Fought on both sides)
Electorate of Brandenburg (1618-1648) (Also fought on both sides)
Hesse-Kassel (1630-1648)
Weimarian/Heilbronn League (1634-1648)

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Re: 30YW German Protestants

Post by Tankred on Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:45 am

I would appreciagte a generic Protesttant list similar to the catholic list. I am pretty sure, that the catholic list would do it, too, but a little bit of difference should be fine.
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Re: 30YW German Protestants

Post by jhykronos on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:58 pm

Tankred wrote:I would appreciagte a generic Protesttant list similar to the catholic list. I am pretty sure, that the catholic list would do it, too, but a little bit of difference should be fine.

Catholics of the early period can be fairly "generic" because their was a lot of interchange between the forces of the Imperials and the Catholic League. (And even the Spanish for that matter). Protestant armies were a bit more varied, and were often on opposite sides of the struggle.

Anyway, as a basic guide to the Protestant armies before Breitenfeld, being as general as possible:

1. The Cavalary-

Cuirassiers: Cash-starved protestant armies had very few Cuirassiers... they should probably be limited to 0-2 units in most armies (maybe 1-4 or 1-5 for the Saxons)

Reiters/Harquebusiers- These should be the mainstay of protestant cavalry... say 2-7. Maybe an option to allow 1/3 to be better quality.

Hungarian Light Cavalry- Should only appear in the early rebellion period, where there could be quite a few. Say 0-4 units.

Dragoons: Should work similar to the Catholics.

2. The Infantry-

Most battlefield foot should be using the "Simplified Dutch" system, with battalions of up to 1000 men, 1/3 of which are pike. Note that a lot of the infantry in protestant armies should be rated as raw or "militia" types. Say 1-6 regulars, and 1-6 inferior foot.

Very early armies might have some mercenary regiments drilled in the imperial "Simplified Spanish" system. Maybe allow 0-2 of these in the early period.

Excess and commanded out shot units should be allowed as per the Catholic list.

3. Artillery- Should be similar to other contemporaries.

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Re: 30YW German Protestants

Post by Tankred on Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:29 am

Sounds very good as a basis concept for a generic list!
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Re: 30YW German Protestants

Post by jhykronos on Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:46 pm

Tankred wrote:Sounds very good as a basis concept for a generic list!

How about a "compromise" generic list.

30YW German Protestant (1618-1632)- SC Poor or Average

Includes the Bohemian/Austrian Rebellions (1618-20)
Armies of Baden-Durlach, Christian of Brunswick, and von Mansfeld in the Palitinate and Danish phases of the thirty years war (1621-29)
Army of Saxony (1618-1632)
Army of Brandenburg (1618-1632)

Unit limits are noted as R (Bohemian/Austrian Rebel), S (Saxon), or O (Other).


Nr(R)Nr(S)Nr(O)UnitsMVBUIDVBPointsNotes
0-21-50-2TR Cuirassiers2S62B350Point Blank Pistol, Cuirass
1-61-42-8RE Reiters251B243Pistol/Carbine, Point Blank Pistol
orororTR Reiters251B239Point Blank Pistol
0-4--CL Hungarian Hussars2F41B234Pistol/Carbine
0-20-20-2DR Dragoons251B257Musket
0-2-0-1LTE Tercio Style Regiments1S72B375Pike, Musket (SM-3), MM2
or-orETE Tercio Style Regiments1S82B491Pike, Musket (SM-4), MM4
1-51-61-5LTE Foot Battalions1S62B367Pike, Musket (SM-2), MM2
orororP&M Foot Battalions162B362Pike, Musket (SM-2)
1-51-61-5LTE Raw Battalions1S61C355Pike, Musket (SM-2), MM2, Recruits
orororP&M Raw Battalions151C242Pike, Musket (SM-2), Recruits
0-20-20-2T Musketeers140B242Musket
1-31-31-3ART Artillery1S10B115Art B
orororART Artillery110B110Art C
-0-1-ART Artillery1S10B120Art A
You can remove up to 1/2 of the permitted Cuirassiers Units the characteristic Cuirass-
TR M=2,VBU=6,I=3,D=B, VD=3, Point Blank Pistol, 51 points
You can upgrade up to 1 deployed Cuirassier to Discipline A - +7 points
You can upgrade up to 1 deployed Cuirassier to Motivated Unit - +6 points
(Saxons Only) You can drop up to half deployed Cuirassiers to Discipline C- -5 points
Reiters can be Massed.  Their Movement drops to 2S.
Up to 1/3 Deployed Reiters may be regarded to-
TR M=2, VBU=6, I=2, D=B, VD=3, Point Blank Pistol, 49 Points
You can uprgrade any of the regarded reiters to Motivated Unit- +6 points
You can upgrade up to 1/3 of the deployed Foot Battalions or Tercio Style Regiments to Hardened Unit- +5 points
You can upgrade up to 1/3 of the deployed Foot Battalions or Tercio Style Regiments to Iron Officers- +5 points
You can regrade any deployed foot battalions to additional Raw Battalions (see Raw Battalions line)
You can replace any Raw Battalions Muskets with Arquebus- -9 points per unit
You can upgrade 1 artillery unit with a master gunner- +5 points

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Re: 30YW German Protestants

Post by stecal on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:01 am

I would be careful of allowing too many hardened unit upgrades for the VBU 7 or 8 TE. Rerolling sixes on cohesion tests makes these really unstoppable. All for a measly 5 points.

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Re: 30YW German Protestants

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