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» Warfare battle of Cunaxa
Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? EmptySat Mar 23, 2024 11:09 am by kenntak

» Ilipa 206BC Society of Ancients Battle Day
Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:16 pm by ejc

» Dice&Lead magazine
Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 8:36 am by dadiepiombo

» Errata updated
Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? EmptyMon Mar 18, 2024 8:39 am by dadiepiombo

» Mamluks in Ayyubids Egyptians
Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? EmptyFri Feb 09, 2024 11:43 am by Robert Gargan

» Army Scale in Creating Scenarios
Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? EmptyFri Jan 19, 2024 7:51 am by kenntak

» Army Builder Issue
Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 9:59 am by jorneto

» Scottish Wars of Independence
Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? EmptyMon Jan 08, 2024 6:41 pm by archibald the grim

» Hoplites equipped with Hoplon
Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? EmptyMon Jan 08, 2024 3:57 pm by kenntak

Warfare battle of Cunaxa

Wed Nov 08, 2023 11:26 pm by ejc

Sorry for short notice we are putting on the above scenario on Saturday 11th …

Comments: 4

Ilipa 206BC Society of Ancients Battle Day

Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:54 pm by ejc

This year's SOA Battle Day is Ilipa206BC will be about a dozen games all re …

Comments: 1

SELWG 2023 Thapsus 46BC

Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:29 pm by ejc

We will putting on the above game at SELG 2023 on Sunday 15th October. Forum …

Comments: 6

Colours 2023

Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:14 pm by ejc

Sorry for very short notice. We are putting on a game at colours on Saturday …

Comments: 0

Salute 2023

Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:49 pm by jorneto

Any Impetus games in this event?

Comments: 10

Society of Ancients Battle Day

Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:15 pm by ejc

Sorry for the short notice.
Our group is attending this event in Newbury on …

Comments: 3

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Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus?

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Zippee
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Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus? Empty Rule changes from Baroque for Impetus?

Post by Nick B Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:27 am

I've just ordered Baroque to play with a friend but wondered if (for friendly games) the rule changes would lift and drop easily into Impetus without significant unexpected impacts?

I appreciate that many of the changes have already been mentioned as to be incorporated in I2 but wondered if they would need additional tweeking?

Cheers

Nick

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Post by Zippee Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:42 pm

The significant one to lift and drop in is Reactions instead of ZOCs and Opportunity status. Pretty easy to drag and play IMO.

Not so sure about the Victory conditions and the use of withdraw - they would lift easy enough, just not sure they are appropriate.

The change to a standard move distance would take a bit of work but not impossible.

To make the changes work seamlessly you'd need to tweak things but nothing you can't work out in a friendly environment.
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Post by stecal Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:07 pm

really nothing wrong with Impetus as it currently stands except the ton of errata & rule changes from 1.7 not integrated into the rules text.  I am hoping Lorenzo doesn't start changing everything "just because" No particular reason to change the move distances.

I am for plugging in the Baroque reaction mechanism with some limits, i.e;  it needs a ZOC distance.

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Post by Zippee Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:11 pm

The main reason to change the move distances and make them a function of base size is because that eradicates most (not all but most) of the disparities between 15mm and 28mm games.

Currently 15mm impetus and 28mm impetus play so differently that it is almost impossible to adjust rules for one without breaking rules for the other - it's to do with game size, table size and the distance units can evade, etc.

Armies are effective in one game and pants in the other. This isn't really a good thing and harms the game overall.

And the best thing about Reactions is that they eliminate all the geometric hoo-hah of having ZOCs, down with ZOC I say, burn him, burn him!

Actually ZOC effectively becomes 1 movement unit - if you can't reach you can't react. Shooting you'd limit to short range but those aren't ZOCs they are the limit of reaction, utterly different in implementation. Smile
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Post by dadiepiombo Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:57 am

I was less convinced to change the moving system but in the experienxce I'm making in Basic Impetus 2 I see how it can work. And it works.
By September I will release BI2 and this will be a very good test.
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Post by stecal Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:29 am

Its just that there were some small differences in movement that gave various armies flavor in otherwise generic troop types. the specific example I can think of is Cataphracts. Alan & Sarmatian Cats moved 10 mu while the fully horse armored Armored Armenian Cats only moved 8 mu. I suppose this can be handled by making the Armenian Cats slow.

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Post by Gaius Cassius Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:57 am

One the differences in creating a set of rules for a specific period like Baroque (Western warfare in the 17th century) and a set like Impetus which covers the world over 3000 years is that the later system does need more subtle mechanisms. The ability of the Swiss FP to move 6U fundamentally makes the army play different than most other heavy infantry armies. The high VBU and high VD of the Swiss makes them both very powerful and very brittle. I'd hate to see these kind of differences lost in Impetus 2.
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Post by Zippee Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:04 pm

That's what I would do.

I think we actually get more variance with Fast and Slow because it can be applied on top of the unit type.

So we can have Fast FL and ordinary FL to help break that horde up for instance.

And Swiss can be Fast - or maybe that ability will be attached to a special unit category like we have in Baroque with Hardened, Feared, etc

I certainly wouldn't want a blanket porting of everythingg Baroque into Impetus - two different eras as GC points out. But a lot of the mechanical devices are much improved.
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Post by dadiepiombo Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:09 pm

in Basic Impetus 2 there are not Fast and Slow troops as BI has not Discipline.

However all foot, Elephants, Heavy Cavalry (type 1*), heavy chariots move 2H (where H is the Half front, like the BU)

CP2 (*), CM move 3H

CL move 4H

But when charge some troops can make extra movement.
So a CP1 move 2H when manouvre and 3H when charge (this can be added to the roll of dice, as usual)

In general Foot is faster and it works. Heavy Cavalry and warbands are faster when charge.

(*) BI2 has CP1 (cataphracts) and CP (ligher and faster CP). CP1 get a +1 in CT when shot at (more armoured)

So far this is BI. For Impetus 2 of course I need to twick and test.
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Post by Tartty Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:00 am

Zippee wrote:The significant one to lift and drop in is Reactions instead of ZOCs and Opportunity status. Pretty easy to drag and play IMO.
yep that's the one I wouldn't mind trying out Cool ...would be interesting
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