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Generals' re roll

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Generals' re roll

Post by Geoffrm on Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:48 am

Hi,
I was in a game last night, two a side, and my companion had a charasmatic general as did his opponent. They both threw for initiative and as neither liked the result they both threw again and again. It only stopped when my companion managed to throw two 1's. I did not think you could repeat your throw more than once but I may be wrong.

Also in the game we had a situation where my opponant had a line of T's with a line of impetuous horse behind. The T's fired and the horse, which could not be held, moved through them. In the next round the T's moved through the horse and fired and the horse then moved through the T's. This does not sound logical. I do not think that the T's were disordered by the horse either although that may have been a mistake. It does not seem right to me that a unit can interpenetrate a unit of impetuous troops when they are moving.

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by accard on Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:00 am

Just to add to this, we only through again once for the generals ability - we then scored a draw, so both had to throw again. Teheargument was then as to whether we could then again re roll for the general's ability after the draw.

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Geoffrm on Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:26 am

I thought the draw was on the second re roll. It was on the third re roll that Richard got snake eye's

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Geoffrm on Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:29 am

Also, and I do not have the rules with me to confirm this, but cannot a general of the calibre you two had give the initiative away wether his opponent wants it or not?
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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by accard on Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:34 am

Only genius commanders can do that

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by accard on Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:36 am

But the sequence was we rolled dice, both commanders re-rolled and drew. we rolled again, the other commander decided to re-roll again (Being charismatic) and then rolled snake eyes.

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Roundie on Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:16 am

I take it you both had the same command structure? because a better command structure wins a draw in initiative rolls
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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Geoffrm on Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:30 am

Yes they both had the same command structure. The point is that there is nothing in the rules to say how many times you can re roll even if there is no draw.

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by accard on Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:31 am

We re-rolled once for being charismatic generals, once for a draw, and then after the draw once again. So we took the draw as a re-set, a chance to roll again. I think Geoff is asking if you only get one re-roll for the turn, regardless of draws.

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Aurelius on Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:25 am

Interesting point, Generals re-roll I've always assumed to be just the one, but I cannot see where in the rules it is stated. I'm sure there has been a clarification somewhere on this forum, or on the old one.

Your second question. A compulsory movement by impetuous troops under rule 5.3 causes "involuntary" interpenetration to units in front (penultimate paragraph of 5.3). 5.10.2 then says in the last paragraph that interpenetrated troops are placed in disorder behind.

5.10.1 says that missile troops cannot voluntarily move through impetuous troops...


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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by accard on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:05 pm

Cheers.

Re interpenetration -the Advanced Impetus download amendment to 5.10.1 states Missiles and Light infantry can interpenetrate any type of unit, including impetuous troops.

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Gaius Cassius on Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:16 pm

We've always played it like Aurelius is suggesting; that any re-roll because of a draw is simply the dice with no modifications of any type. Interestingly, the rules are quite silent on this so I am wondering where we got this idea (perhaps from the Old Forum?)

Aurelius, you're incorrect about the T unit being disordered by being displaced backwards by the advancing impetuous CP. It is only involuntary movement forward that does that. Also, T units now function as S units for the purpose of interpenetration so 5.10.1 has been amended in Advanced Impetus (as accard said above.) It should be mentioned that for T units to advance through CP to fire would require two moves with all the attending risks and such (reduced fire for two moves and possible disorder. Not necessarily a great move to my thinking but it might be useful in specific circumstances.)
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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by dadiepiombo on Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:34 pm

1) General's re-roll. You can re-roll only once per initiative.

2) T and cavalry intepenetration. Any can interpenetrate T, but T cannot interpenetrate Cavalry.
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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Aurelius on Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:56 pm

Oops, senior moment, forgot to check amendments.

However, I thought it was involuntary movement we were talking about? I've always thought that the compulsory move of "Out of control" troops was involuntary. Hence the second sentence of 5.10.2. The last sentence implies that all troop types interpenetrated (even S) are disordered. I don't think you can just choose (or "volunteer") your impetuous troops to move forward. Any movement is compulsory, and interpenetration is then involuntary.

I see that Lorenzo has clarified that T cannot pass through cavalry.

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by accard on Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:07 pm

2) T and cavalry intepenetration. Any can interpenetrate T, but T cannot interpenetrate Cavalry.

Lorenzo write above - but the Advanced Impetus download needs amending then as it clearly states:

Missile troops and Light infantry can interpenetrate any type of unit or large unit, including.....impetuous troops)

If not all units can be interpenetrated this needs to be cleared up.

My personal point of view was that the interpenetration was too generous - but now I am confused as to what is, or is not, allowed.

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Gaius Cassius on Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:40 pm

Advanced Impetus says the following:

Missile troops and Light Infantry (not impetuous) can also interpenetrate any type of Unit or Large Unit (including Schiltron, Pikemen and Impetuous troops).

The rules are clear Lorenzo that T units can interpenetrate mounted units. As accard states, we need AI amended to go with your comments above. Personally, I prefer the rules as they currently exist but don't have a problem with it going either way.
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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Tarty on Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:08 am

T's can't interpenetrate cavalry ...yes thats new.

Perhaps it's a Baroque ruling that he's thinking about here ? ...he's been busy working on those lately.
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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by GamesPoet on Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:47 pm

Hi Lorenzo ... as these guys have shown what is in Advanced Impetus, a clarification could be good now that we are also reading you post here on this thread that tells us the opposite of what the current rules provide.

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Re: Generals' re roll

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:50 pm

I am presuming that Lorenzo misspoke and that T units can interpenetrate mounted units. Until we see AI amended that is how we are going to play it.
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