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Wheeling to exploit success - seems very slow

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Wheeling to exploit success - seems very slow

Post by Wellingtonboot on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:48 pm

I just played my first game, a very enjoyable Persian vs Greeks affair in which it was nice to see the Persian bow fire actually have an effect on the hoplites. Greeks won, but only just.

In playing, I noticed that once the battle lines came together, if a unit routed their opponents it took them a long time to wheel round and threaten the enemies flank. The battle was won and lost on the frontal match ups before any unit could swing around and really exploit their success. This isn't a complaint but an observation, and a limited one at that given I've only played one game and it may reflect my tactical ineptitude rather than anything else! But does this tend to be the experience of the game? Allowing troops to about face may make it quicker to swing around especially if your success has taken you past the enemy battle line.
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Re: Wheeling to exploit success - seems very slow

Post by Zippee on Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:59 am

Probably a function of having mostly FP on the table, who are slow.

Multiple moves should assist, and you'll be less concerned about potential disorder if you're looking for flanks.

Try the same situation with CL and CM, you'll find turning the line much easier.

That said I think Impetus has it about right, I'm not convinced it should be a quick and easy thing to achieve. And more to the point, having achieved it, it's just as difficult for the enemy to respond - and that sounds right to me.
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Wheeling to exploit success - seems very slow

Post by Wellingtonboot on Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:33 pm

Thanks Zippee. What do you mean by multiple moves assisting?
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Re: Wheeling to exploit success - seems very slow

Post by Zippee on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:35 pm

Sorry hadn't realised you were asking about Basic Impetus - in the full game units can make multiple moves each activation, needing to pass a discipline test to avoid falling into disorder.

So your victorious hoplite unit at the end of the line can wheel and/or move more than once on a single activation to achieve the flanking position you want.

Also in the full game with multiple commands it's possible for the flanking command to activate twice before the defending command reacts.

There's a reason Basic Impetus is so called Shocked : the full game adds heaps.
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Re: Wheeling to exploit success - seems very slow

Post by 1ngram on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:46 pm

But did they?

My take would be that they would more readily pursue. In fact it would have been extremely difficult to stop them and control them sufficiently to get them to wheel in, keeping their order as they did so. More likely with faster,looser order troops (as is well shown in BI) but a phalanx of hoplites, say, never mind a body of victorious warriors? Not likely, I think.

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Re: Wheeling to exploit success - seems very slow

Post by Zippee on Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:30 pm

Which is why getting a genuine flank attack is difficult to achieve. On the other hand lines certainly were rolled up when units succeeded at turning into the flank.
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Wheeling to exploit success - seems very slow

Post by Wellingtonboot on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:26 pm

Thanks Zippee and 1ingram. There were several instances of victorious hoplites swinging around to attack flanks or the enemy's own successful wing (Delium, Coronea) but given this was hoplite v hoplite the fact that in BI this would be a ponderous move for both sides probably doesn't matter and may be a good simulation. At Delium Thucydides does give the impression that the successful Athenian wing swung around helter skelter and attacked the Boeotian centre in some disorder, suggesting it was a pretty sudden move, but then they get scared off by the cavalry, possibly precisely because they are in disorder. Anyway, looks like I need to checkout full Imptetvs once I've got the hang of BI. Thank again for replies.
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