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T Troops in Large Units

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T Troops in Large Units Empty T Troops in Large Units

Post by MyNameIsDennis on Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:46 pm

A large unit has mixed troop types (ie. FP with pike/spear in front rank, T  in rear rank).

Does the unit conduct Defensive fire as a T unit, with the applicable modifiers on the discipline test?

When the T element is contacted on the side edge, does it fight in melee as per the front ranks stats, or as a T troop type?

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Post by jorneto on Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:41 am

a) Yes if not attacked from the flank or the rear.

b) As the front rank.

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Post by MyNameIsDennis on Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:05 am

Thanks Jorneto. Do the mixed units of Pike in front, T in  back also benefit from the pike units having no flanks, only a rear? or is that only for units entirely comprised of FP with pike?

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Post by Gaius Cassius on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:07 pm

Good question. Don't know the answer. Our group questions the whole idea of pike units of any type not having flanks.
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Post by jorneto on Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:13 pm

I think that only Wagenburgs count as having no flank or rear.

Where is that rule for pikes?

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T Troops in Large Units Empty Re: T Troops in Large Units

Post by MyNameIsDennis on Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:05 pm

Page 44, 7.7 Fighting a Melee.
In the cohesion test modifiers it states:
"Pikes has no penalties if attacked on flank (but they have a rear)"
My understanding is they are still disordered, and lose rank bonus, but do not suffer the -2 on the cohesion test, but are still destroyed if they lose the melee.
edited after re-reading rules.

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Post by Gaius Cassius on Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:36 am

Not sure about this. The language for Wagenburgs and Pikes is very similar (no penalties). I do like what you are suggesting. Seems like a reasonable compromise from our end.
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Post by MyNameIsDennis on Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:39 am

7.2.3 is pretty clear about only Wagenburgs ignoring any effects of flank or rear charges. Pikes are only mentioned in the cohesion test modifiers (7.7) for a flank attack.

If a mixed (FP w/pike, and T) unit is contacted with a flank charge, does it fight as the front rank and ignore the -2 cohesion test modifier?

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Post by jorneto on Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:06 am

It seems there is an inconsistency between those two points.

One might think the pikes can put a squarish formation as to justify a no flank penalty. However my personal preference is for a flanked unit to be as much penalized as possible So, if I had to choose between those points I would go for the wagenburg only exception.

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Post by Gaius Cassius on Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:56 pm

To Dennis' question I would say that a mixed unit of FP/T would suffer the full effect of a flank attack and get the -2 regardless of where the specific contact is. Of course only Lorenzo can speak definitively on this.

Until Lorenzo says otherwise I am inclined to go with Dennis' interpretation of the flanking of pike blocks. See what the other guys in my gaming group think.
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T Troops in Large Units Empty Re: T Troops in Large Units

Post by dadiepiombo Today at 8:28 am

If a mixed (FP w/pike, and T) unit is contacted with a flank charge, does it fight as the front rank and ignore the -2 cohesion test modifier?

No, only full pikes Units

As for the main question: W have no flank or rear, so they cannot be charged on a flank/rear. Pikes have a front, so can be attacked on the flank or rear.
For Cohesion Test purpose only all Units have a -2 if attacked on flank/rear, the only exception are Pikes, that don't suffer this modifier in case they are attacked on flank (but they do if attacked on rear).

This makes the pikes still vulnerable on the flank (see other penalties) but a bit less. Mind that loosing a melee while attacked on the flank/rear for a large Units means the loss of all the Units forming it.
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