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» SHIELD WALL
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» Late Roman Army
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» Neo Assyrian list?
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» Pursuit and failed rear attack 7.7.2
Defensive firea EmptyFri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm by ejc

PARAITKENE 317BC

Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:17 am by ejc

Our group will be putting on the above battle at Cavalier 2020 on sunday …

Comments: 2

Basic Impetus demos @ Fall In

Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:17 pm by GriffonsLair

Griffons Lair will be doing demos all weekend of Basic Impetus in our booth at …

Comments: 0

Battle of Harzhorn Salute 2019

Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:13 pm by ejc

Our group is putting on the above at the EXcell Centre London being the SAlute …

Comments: 14

The Illiad = The Wrath of Achilles

Thu May 09, 2019 12:41 pm by ejc

We will be putting this game on at one of the Autumn shorws probably Colours or …

Comments: 1

The Battle of Apamea at Hotlead

Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:50 am by Gaius Cassius

Hotlead is Canada's leading Miniature Wargames Convention. It is held in 2019 …

Comments: 2

BI2 tournament - 12 May 2018 - CANCELLED

Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:26 am by RogerC

EDIT I am very sorry, but I’ve had to CANCEL this tournament. I’ve …

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Post by ejc on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:22 pm

A unit of FP hopiltes does multiple moves with attached general on last move charges a group of T who what to react with defensive fire. If the T pass reaction test do they fire before the hopilites do their last discipline test. Very important if hopilites test firsy then chance of disorder before being shot at. Think of seen answer to this but cant find it. Eric

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Post by Gaius Cassius on Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:48 pm

It seems clear to me that the order is,

1. Moving Unit makes a DT test for multiple moves.
2. Defending makes a DT for Defensive Fire.

The second or following moves in one activation require an immediate DT (5.1)

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Post by ejc on Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:08 pm

Thanks Gaius I'm sure you're right 5.1 says 'If a march is performed a discipline test is required at the end of the second and subsequent moves'. What prompted me to query it 6.7 Defensive Fire says 'Troops with shooting capabilities can perform as a reaction, Defensive Fire before being charged. Charge is a movement so took it that the word 'before' meant that the fire took place before the charge is completed so discipline test for chargers after shooting even though figures actually moved into contact? Unless I'm missing something these 2 rule sections are a bit unclear on this? Our group really like these rules they give us a buzz but at times can be a bit ambiguous that's where the forum comes in. Eric

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Post by Gaius Cassius on Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:34 pm

Technically the test is made before the charge because many units capable of Defensive Fire can also Evade. Notice the calculation in 6.7 is done after all movement. So while one has to declare one's intention before the charge begins the actual defensive fire doesn't take place until the melee. Another interesting question though is what if a charging unit declares a charge, the defender declares defensive fire but the charger fails to contact (say they fail their bonus charge move). Does the defending unit still get their defensive fire? Probably not because Defensive Fire mentions contact but perhaps they should be able to fire.
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Post by ejc on Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:26 pm

Thats how we play it but on reading 6.7 again made me doubt it for reasons stated in earlier posting. Also it refers to shooting at short range before PBW weapons so inferring before contact and as 5.1 says disciplne test is at the end of movement you could be forgiven that the T fire before chargers discipline test.
That said more sense testing first. Will give potential chargers something to think about when using multiple moves the risk of disorder before shot at.

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Post by ejc on Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:31 pm

Sorry last sentence should have started....sense testing chargers first.

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Post by Gaius Cassius on Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:56 am

Short Range in 6.7 doesn't imply before contact in my reading of it. It simply states which column of fire one uses to determine the number of dice and relevant CT modifiers. Short range is 0-4H.
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Post by Zippee on Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:27 am

For me defensive fire occurs at some point between declaration of charge [and any relevant DT] and before contact [and any relevant melee resolution], evasion or failure to close.
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Post by dadiepiombo on Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:16 pm

defensive fire is calculated at short range. But as Gaius said just to determine the number of dice on the table.
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