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Disordering Terrain Effect

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Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:21 am

Imagine a CP unit entering into broken terrain. When does the CP go disordered?

1. At the end of the move.
2. Immediately upon entering the terrain.
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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Zippee on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:34 am

As the DIS is caused by being "within" the terrain, it would necessarily need to be whilst it counts as within the terrain.

The major impact is not being able to move again and being vulnerable to enemy attacks.

The only reason why I think it would be an issue is for an opportunity charge / shot. In which case I always allow the opportunist to pick the best timing it can. So the CP would be DIS for that on my table.

If the CP are charging into contact then they'll be fighting DIS if they are within the terrain. I can't see how you can argue otherwise.

What begged the question?
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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Gaius Cassius on Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:49 pm

A CP charged an FL unit in broken terrain. Immediately to the front of the FL was an S unit of the same side that could not evade (would leave the table) but was able to make a "death roll" (what we call Dispersion of Skirmishers). The question was whether the CP goes into melee against the S unit disordered or not (we agreed that the CP would be disordered against the FL.)

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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Zippee on Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:11 pm

I hate that ruling - just evade off table Very Happy

Mounted are disordered if even partially in broken ground - they also lose Impetus.

So it rather depends exactly where the S are standing, if the CP contact them without at any time entering the broken ground then they aren't disordered otherwise they are.

Confusingly the melee modifiers use the phrasing "if the enemy unit is entirely in this terrain"

This means that contacting on a whiffy corner and projecting your front contact into the broken ground is far better than a proper contact - pure gamesmanship of course Very Happy

And I truly hope that 2ed clears this up by having all effects apply if fighting against enemy within, or by having to be within yourself. One or the other not a mixture (and preferably the former).

Is that helpful?
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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Gaius Cassius on Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:57 pm

Both pieces were totally inside the terrain feature. As an aside the S would have evaded on top of the friendly camp and so off the table.

We were debating when the CP becomes disordered. Immediately at the first mm of movement in the disordering terrain are at the end of the move? I think you responses above suggest immediately but it would help if you could be explicit! Very Happy
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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Zippee on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:03 am

My understanding is that terrain imparts its disorder penalty the instant an affected unit is even partially within the terrain.

So if the CP had to enter even a fraction of the broken ground to make contact with the S then they are disordered.

Only if the S are straddling the edge of the terrain feature and the CP contact that part of their base which is outside do the CP retain their good order (but would still suffer the melee negatives).

Is that clear enough?

Not that my rulings have any power of attorney or anything Very Happy
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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Gaius Cassius on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:29 am

Yes that is clear and helpful Zippee. When our group can't agree on a rule I've always thought of the more experienced Impetus players like yourself, Cyrus, Jim etc. on the Forum as Appellate Courts and Lorenzo is the High/Supreme Court. So unless Lorenzo overrules you or other experienced players dispute what you say I will take it to the bank. Thanks.
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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Zippee on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:33 am

No worries,
happy to help
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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Jim Webster on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:20 am

do I have to wear a wig and a gown? farao
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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Zippee on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:50 am

it's the fact you wear little else that worries us Jim Very Happy
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Re: Disordering Terrain Effect

Post by Jim Webster on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:19 am

Zippee wrote:it's the fact you wear little else that worries us Jim Very Happy

It's the tropical Cumbrian winter temperatures that make it all possible Very Happy
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